Posted on 06/11/2015 5:23:08 AM PDT by xzins
Isn't that the idea of our republic?.. to be informed so that we may express our wishes to our representatives?
If they're saying they don't want us to be informed because then they may have to choose to do what we want then just damn.
This is probably still taught in law schools. At this point, elements of a good law is the same as teaching the kids how to catch skittle-pooping unicorns.
It’s why I don’t believe in “blind” justice...time for good folks to start tipping the scales back!
When the Senate passed the trade bill, I noticed this on a number of news sites:
“The legislation would give Congress the ability to vote for or against — but not amend or filibuster — major international trade agreements negotiated by the White House. It’s known as “fast track” authority because it is designed to speed up and boost the likelihood of the U.S. approving free trade agreements. The pending 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership isn’t expected to be sealed until and if Congress clears the fast-track bill.”
Note the “designed to speed up and boost the likelihood of the U.S. approving free trade agreements.” This TPA is a smoke and mirrors device used to get around the two-thirds vote requirement to pass a treaty, which is what the trade bills are. I talked with a senator’s aide and he slipped and called the bill a treaty. Do you honestly believe the Senate would joyfully approve TPA if they did not have in mind passing the whole deal? To grant their prince Obama fast track authority and then deny his use of it? When have Republicans denied Obama anything he wanted since they took control of Congress?
How can they clear up the secrecy issues without revealing their negotiating stance, and that of all 12 members, to the world before the deal is done?
Your representative and both of your senators can go read the current draft today if they want to. We'll also all get to see the full text for at least 60 days before congress votes.
No, they are not a joke. Jokes are funny and make you laugh. They are Tyrants and needed to be treated as such.
Is it time for civil disobedience yet? Is it time to water the tree of liberty with the blood of such tyrants now?
Burgess should have responded with “Just to clarify, Congressman, you’re saying that we have to pass the bill in order to find out what’s in it. Correct?”
Would love to see how Ryan would’ve responded to THAT!
No, they are not stupid. They are evil and have out smarted us all. They are in power and we are their servants. We are the tax donkeys and their pawns who vote for them because they have created a power structure with our money that blocks all other opponents with propaganda.
The statesmen have been sold to the highest bidders. They have tasted absolute power and hit had corrupted them absolutely.
What is the consequence if they do not make it public for 60 days? Answer: none
Remember when the Democrats, then the Republicans promised to post all bills on the internet for 5 days before debating/voting?
This is as worthless a promise as that.....and you are falling for it, just as they hope.
Republics have blind justice. Tyrannies don’t.
The American Form of Government:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6koTFHnH0
It’s what conservatives used to believe years ago.
Obama is half the problem. The other half is the Republicans empowering him. Had the GOP and their backers not given barry the means, he’d never have been able to do what he has done.
I support free trade. I do not support secret trade deals with congress giving up its authority to amend such deals and eliminating the need for a super majority.
I do not agree with Fast Track Authority. Passing inter-nation deals should be difficult and should require a very high bar of approval.
Fast Track is just a lazy person's way of saying "the constitutional way of doing things is too hard.:
First, nobody is saying anyone wants to conduct negotiations in public. That's a strawman. What people are saying is that we do not want to have something undesirable happen due to secrecy. Indeed, some specific examples have been provided - things relating to amnesty/immigration and "living documents" that can change without approval for example.
Those two things at a minimum need to be cleared up. Separately, they need to clear up the secrecy thing. Why does something have to be classified? Why are there gag orders on the people who view the classified agreement?
This needs to be cleared up is all.
No argument that fast-track makes it much easier to pass trade deals. I think the conventional wisdom is that it would be impossible to pass a trade deal without it. Personally, I think some trade deals are good and necessary, although I haven't seen the TPP yet.
My point is that there's nothing unique about how TPP is being handled. Every modern trade deal has been done using this process. If you're against all trade deals, fine, but don't think the TPP's getting any special treatment.
No amendments?! Why not?
But there are no penalties if they do not make the negotiated trade deal public for 60 days before voting on it.
They clear up the secrecy by making the bill public after it’s been put on Fast Track.
This is a three stage process. The bill is put on Fast Track. Then the bill is released publicly for review and debate. THEN, down the road (45 days?) the bill is voted on, simple majority and no filibuster.
I like TPA Fast Track, with one exception. Thats the simple majority vote. If they put the vote requirement back where it should be, at 67 votes, the rest of it actually helps getting to a good bill/treaty by streamlining the process and keeping the thing from being turned into an omnibus/Christmas Tree.
This needs to be cleared up is all.
The gag orders exist so the interim positions of the US and the other 11 countries don't get leaked while the negotiations are in progress - conducting the negotiations in public, in other words.
Regarding undesirable aspects of the deal, I completely agree that we need to be on guard. That's the purpose of the 60 day period between publication of the text of the agreement and the vote by congress.
But is TPP a typical trade deal?
Doesn’t look like it to me. At least from what Congressmen and Senators who’ve seen it are saying (under the gag order).
That should requre a change to the “usual” TPA rules and process.
Having to negotiate in public is not equivalent to sharing with us the few details about which we are concerned. If us knowing the details screws the deal then so be it. But if not many of us object then no problem, right? What are they afraid of?
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