[[Our current rise in CO2 is 120 ppm (from 280 to 400). If that were due to temperature we would have had a rise of 12C or more some number of centuries ago]]
and hyet you and other ‘man-caused’ climate change advocates keep telling us there are many variables which affect climate- but now you’re certain man is causing climate change because we produce CO2-
There have been past decades where CO2 was as high as it is today- Again- woopsie- nature causes fluctuations in ppm’s- so to state ppm is higher today, therefore it msut be man, and this is the ‘only accurate wy to measure’ is ismpyl notr true
“”A slightly shocking finding,” Tripati said, “is that the only time in the last 20 million years that we find evidence for carbon dioxide levels similar to the modern level of 387 parts per million was 15 to 20 million years ago,”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008152242.htm
To state that ‘man must be the cause’ of the rise in ppm is pretty presumptuous when the FACt is that man’s production of CO2 takes up only 0.00137% of the atmosphere
Sadly though, the site listed above states nature was the cause, then looks at today’s current rise and turns around and blames man- typical- even after stating it’s only in the last decade that a dramatic rise has taken place DESPITE the FACT that a dramatic rise in man’s production has NOT taken place- it’s remained fairly steady output for a a long while-
[[but every year we get another 2-3ppm. There is not enough deep ocean warming to create all that CO2.]]
Really? What caused it ‘15 million years ago’ then?
” At the same time, emissions in most industrial countries dropped, bringing global CO2 emissions from fossil fuel use down from a high of 8.5 billion tons of carbon in 2008 to 8.4 billion tons in 2009. “
That’s funny- we just got done hearing how it’s man’s fault that CO2 levels are rising 2-3 ppm each year, yet here’s evidence that man’s output has been steadily and fairly dramatically falling since the early 2000’s
So, if we say “There is an increase in CO2 in atmosphere since the industrial age began, therefore it’s man’s fault’ do we now to get to say “There has been a drop in man’s production of CO2 for awhile now, yet CO2 continues to rise, therefore it ‘can’t possibly be man’s fault’? (you know, since we’re using ‘correlation’ as our measure for who is to blame)
[[There are also natural (and manmade) vegetation changes that account for some of the CO2 rise.]]
There we go- especially in light of the fact that past centuries have shown marked increases in CO2 levels
but now you're certain man is causing climate change because we produce CO2- Now you are putting words in my mouth. I have never said that. I have pointed out the very strong evidence that man has caused the rise in CO2. The alternative is that natural warming caused the CO2 rise. I pointed out that there was not enough natural warming decades or centuries ago to cause the present rise of 120ppm. That has nothing to do with "manmade warming" which I believe is real, but very slow and very beneficial to both people and the ecosystem.
There have been past decades where CO2 was as high as it is today
Only when measured in specific locations at specific times. The worldwide average has never been as high or even close for a million years or more according sediment cores (shells) and ice cores. Prior to that it was high and even much higher. Measuring CO2 in the 1800's in one location does not say anything about the worldwide average.
Really? What caused it `15 million years ago' then?
Several possible natural causes. One is volcanoes. Another is sudden death of lots of plantlife particularly ocean plantlife.
That's funny- we just got done hearing how it's man's fault that CO2 levels are rising 2-3 ppm each year, yet here's evidence that man's output has been steadily and fairly dramatically falling since the early 2000's
No, not correct. Your numbers say that CO2 production dropped from 2008 to 2009, and that corresponds nicely to the worldwide recession. The drop shows up a little on the worldwide chart of CO2 growth:
It doesn't stand out however because natural variations in temperature affect the year-to-year growth. For example El Nino in 1998 created a big natural rise in CO2, the cooling in 1999 made it drop, but there was still growth. The fluctations are natural, but the persistent growth is manmade.