Here are a couple categorical facts. 1. You're a gullible noob. 2. Obama's Department of Justice is untrustworthy. Here, "untrustworthy" means they lie like bear rugs. Period.
Posted on 03/23/2015 6:44:24 AM PDT by Kaled
I took the time over the weekend to read the entirety of the 102-page Department of Justice report on the Ferguson PD ("FPD"). I cannot recommend highly enough that you do the same. During the course of this reading, I intentionally read it with as jaundiced of an eye towards the Department of Justice as possible. I intentionally disregarded all commentary regarding what the DOJ investigators reported that they saw, and also all of their reported interviews of the citizens of Ferguson and FPD officers. I decided to say to myself, let's assume that everything DOJ says is a lie, and also that everyone who was willing to talk to the DOJ during the course of their investigation either lied or shaded the truth. What remained astounded me.
Even if you read only the parts of the Ferguson DOJ report that come directly from the files of the FPD (which is to say, files that would be most favorable to the Department), the report paints an incredibly damning picture of the Ferguson Police Department....
I. The Ferguson Police Department Acts Almost Exclusively As A Revenue Generation Machine For The City....I am not going to sugar coat this or engage in a lot of pointless throat clearing here--the report, taken as a whole, even in terms of material collected exclusively from FPD documents, is incredibly damning of police and municipal court practices in Ferguson....II. The Ferguson PD Habitually Uses Excessive Force....
III. The Ferguson PD Has Utterly Failed To Supervise Its Officers' Use Of Force....
IV. The Ferguson PD Systematically Punishes Residents Of Ferguson For 'Contempt Of Cop'....
V. The Evidence Of Racial Bias In The Administration of Justice In Ferguson Is Overwhelming....
(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...
Anyone who can read the actual report itself and be comfortable with the fact that citizens of an American city live under such a regime is frankly not someone who is ideologically aligned with me in any meaningful way.
That pretty well sums it up.
Would the DOJ lie?
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Regardless of what is in the report, the federal DOJ has no business in the local FPD. I write this knowing the legal authority and precedent of federal involvement, but it is not the way to solve the problems in places like Ferguson. The problem in Ferguson is the people of Ferguson. Until the people take personal responsibility for themselves, their families and then their community they will continue to have problems. It will not happen with a nanny-state DOJ that encourages people to be victims and keep sticking their hands out.
Yes.
Does this mean everything they say is a lie?
No.
What you are proposing here, the rejection of a report simply because of its source, is a logical fallacy. It’s a reverse Appeal to Authority. A statement cannot be true because of who said it.
That’s a logical fallacy because a statement is not true or false because of the source. It’s true or false because it’s true or false.
Conservatives are in a world of hurt on this issue because many of them point to the exoneration of Darrell Wilson in Report A as proof they were right all along. While at the same time rejecting Report B because they don’t like to think it might be even partially correct.
Well, I don’t like to think this is true either. Let’s set aside whether the FPD methods were motivated by racism or not, the only issue the DOJ is really interested in. FPD’s policies are quite simply wrong regardless of the skin color of those affected.
I agree with the author of this piece.
***As A Revenue Generation Machine For The City....***
So? Small town police forces ALL cross the USA do that! It’s called SPEED TRAPS.
I agree. I read the report in its entirety, and if you take out Holder’s racial crap, then it is a pretty damning document that reveals the corruption that goes on within the FPD (and in other towns and cities throughout the country-—we all know about this kind of LEO misbehavior-—it was just worse in Ferguson).
Having personally witnessed small-town Missouri “justice,” I have to agree. I bailed out my daughter in Missouri for bouncing a check. She spent over 90 days in jail, and I had to pay court costs over double the amount in question. The people in court were all poor, not all black, and extremely poorly represented. It was disturbing, to say the least.
One of the cases involved a young man who was arrested for trespassing. He took a shortcut across the back of a Walmart parking lot. He was in the delayed enlistment program and lost his slot due to the misdemeanor. Seemed like a decent kid and family, but they had no idea about court. The judge should have dismissed the case, but he was prosecuted. The court and jail were the largest buildings in town and were the most busy.
It was seriously like being in the third world or a B movie complete with the fat prosecutor, the corrupt judge, a public defender too young to shave and a sheriff right out of the Dukes of Hazard. As a conservative, I was appalled at a system clearly designed to take advantage of a population who are already faced with little or no opportunity.
I would look at in a positive manner. First, you only had 5 police officers. That would indicate that you don't have much crime. Second, you get to directly vote for the sheriff.
I joke around at work sometimes about only wanting a constable and a medical examiner. The constable would haul criminals to jail that were held at gunpoint by citizens and the medical examiner would bury those not held a gunpoint. That is taking personal responsibility. (written somewhat sarcastically) Funny thing, there are far more guns in my neighborhood than in any inner city neighborhood. Plus, everyone knows how to shoot, unlike inner city thugs. The consequences: crime is DUI and shoplifting visitors from the city. It make it difficult to justify much of a police force.
That’s disturbing. But ties in with a lot of what I’ve seen.
Middle or upper-middle class Americans in many ways live in a different world from poor Americans. And they aren’t even aware of it.
Casual oppression and tyranny is very common. I suspect it’s a lot less than it used to be, but that doesn’t make it right.
I grew up in MO myself during the 60s. Cops (and others) had a slang term for their nightsticks. N*****-knockers. And that’s exactly how they were used.
Here are a couple categorical facts. 1. You're a gullible noob. 2. Obama's Department of Justice is untrustworthy. Here, "untrustworthy" means they lie like bear rugs. Period.
I know. A newbie that joined on Mar 11th to post this.
There are two unrelated questions here:
(1) What happened with the thug who attacked and robbed a store owner before attacking and being killed by a cop?
(2) Are there serious issues with Ferguson’s general police procedures?
The answer to #1 is that he got what he deserved and Ferguson is better off without that violent predator. The evidence that he was a vicious danger to society is overwhelming, and I am pleased with an outcome that made all decent people safer.
The answer to #2 is unknown because the issue has been politicized to the point that the truth can probably not be discovered. There are small towns and even a few states in which the police are there as a source of revenue. I’ve personally encountered several. I don’t know to what extent Ferguson was one of them, and I would not trust claims from the far left regardless of their reported foundation. I also do not know to what extent race was relevant to any police revenue efforts, and again I would not trust any reports on that issue.
Doesn’t surprise me at all. I had to drive 50 miles to find a decent hotel (one right off the Interstate). The entire area was so depressed, I felt the lack of my concealed weapon every time I drove down the street. It made most urban ghettos look nice by comparison. Wouldn’t want to be around if the EBT system crashed—I doubt one person in ten was employed.
Informal fallacy of ‘Division’
Form: The object O has the property of P.
Therefore, all the parts of O have the property of P.
(Where the property P is one which does not distribute from a whole to a part.)
The universe has existed for fifteen billion/six thousand years.
The universe is made out of molecules.
Therefore, each of the molecules in the universe has existed for fifteen billion/six thousand years.
Or, People are made of atoms.
People are visible.
Therefore, atoms are visible.
The Ferguson police department is racist.
The officer who shot Michael Brown is a member of the Ferguson police department.
Therefore, the officer who shot Michael Ferguson killed him because he is a racist.
Or maybe it’s just Ferguson that is racist.
Keeping in mind that the minor premise (”The Ferguson police department is racist.”) is valid at DU, the Department of Justice (and regarding this group, the DOJ: in judging the trustworthiness of the affiant, look to ethos and logos; resort to pathos—ex. “He was a gentle giant”) only if both of the former fail, e.g. Eric “BecauseIsayso” Holder, gun-running, New Black Panthers, etc.—and valid at various other places only ... the fact remains that the shooting should be judged on its own merits, not the prejudices of those with axes to grind; also, witnesses lie (”Hands up!”) while forensic evidence gathered according to scientific methods does not; and finally, I suppose if we are going to allow the DOJ to smear the `Show Me’ state while we wag our heads, there are places in the north and west every bit as “racist” as Ferguson, MO.
Chicago, Boston, LA, Zimmerman’s `hood ... but hey—let’s not go there. That would be racist.
It’s probably a bad idea to drive through those parts — too much risk of a “busted taillight” fine (if it wasn’t busted before, it would be two seconds after Officer Friendly arrived).
I may agree with this guy over the way police departments are run all over the country, but strongly disagree with his conclusions, especially in the areas I’ve done some serious research. For example, the report is horrifically slanted when it comes to race, at least to anyone who has dome some research on the pertinent issues elsewhere.
This report is the equivalent of the news reports the first week after Michal Brown was killed. Any accusation against the cops, even accusations contrary to the known evidence, are treated as credible. For example, if Michael Brown had his hands up when he died, or if he were on his knees, then how’d he end up in that position after death? Blew my mine, the number of people who thought some of those lies credible, just on what we knew at the time.
Not to say that the Ferguson PD was the best ever, but it’s clear to me that the picture is not nearly so ugly as the DOJ report implies. This is the best analysis (although briefer than I like) of the DOJ report that I have seen:
https://dissonantwinstonsmith.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/abdication-of-justice/
I do have issues with Ferguson policing, but for the most part those issues are with standard policing practices rather that with Ferguson per se.
You’re obviously not familiar with the St. Louis County area. There are lots of perfectly decent areas a lot closer than that to Ferguson. Bet you could have found a decent hotel easily within 10 miles.
50 miles you’ve driven clear out of the SL area.
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