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How can America inspire the Slacktivist to action? (Bring Back the Draft)
Washington Post ^ | December 30, 2014 | Dana Milbank

Posted on 12/31/2014 6:17:55 AM PST by C19fan

I wanted to do something for my country during the holidays, so I went to the movies.

I watched the Christmas Day opening of “The Interview,” to show North Korea that I wasn’t afraid of its threats to blow up theaters that screen the parody of Kim Jong Un. The $9.50 I paid in the name of patriotic pride bought me stadium seating, a preview of the coming feature “Hot Tub Time Machine 2,” and a feature film full of jokes about rectums, sex organs, ricin and the Supreme Leader defecating in his pants. Except for the Asian stereotypes, it was just my speed. Still, I wondered if there isn’t a better way to sacrifice for my country than paying to hear dong jokes.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: draft; service
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To: Billthedrill; C19fan; ansel12; strider44; hlmencken3
All of you except Ansel12 miss the point: this nation, this culture of ours was built on participation, a sense that we were responsible as adults to support and defend our country to the best of our abilities. It's one of the main characteristics that defined us as a free nation. We take charge of the tough stuff needed to keep us going.

Lately, we have had a generation or two of whiners but the material is still good and we need to reenergize our young men and women into participating in our country's defense and other needs. If we can't handle that many young people, then we need to redevelop that capability. They would get the experience of working outside their neighborhoods, families and their cloistered environment and those who entered the armed forces would learn military skills that could be applied all of their lives when needed. When only a few take part in this nation's armed forces, then whoever's in power can pretty much do what they want. When everyone's involved in our military power, the leadership can't get away with unwanted and unnecessary fights.

The attitude that "other people's children" should volunteer and take all the discomfort and risks for their country came up thanks to the Leftists and cowards during my war, Vietnam. They created the fiction that that part of the world was unimportant and that supporting the enemy was good, healthy fun.

We need to turn ourselves around from the lies of the cowards that ran things back then (and now) and get this country's young people back to involvement with each other and the nation's defense.

Strider - if you couldn't lead today's young people, then you aren't much of a leader, are you? The kids today are just fine, just as good as any generation or better.

41 posted on 01/01/2015 4:41:38 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail

Right. Support for a draft currently is based on some kind of demand for social engineering. One might be tempted to say “social opportunity.” More traditional Americans see it as socializing young people to traditional American self-sacrifice while the Left sees it as involuntarily indoctrinating people into “community organizing.” Military necessity is an afterthought these days.


42 posted on 01/01/2015 6:52:14 AM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: Chainmail

That’s funny. Accuse me of being a bad leader because I point out the poor quality of many soldiers. Yes, you’re right of course. It’s my fault that dozens of soldiers in our brigade fail urinalysis for pot routinely. It’s my fault soldiers decide to punch or stab their wives. I’ve caused the multiple sexual assaults we’ve had to deal with. It’s my fault we have soldiers getting caught stealing from the PX. Yup, It’s gotta be me, not the poor character/ lack of morals these soldiers brought into the army.

Are all soldiers bad? Of course not. Would all draftees be bad? Of course not. However the percentage of problem soldiers has increased dramatically over my 22 years of observation. That’s just a fact.

As a young LT in Germany in the early 90s , I think we had 1 enlisted soldier pop positive for pot in 3 years. I remember the kid because he was one of my best crew chiefs (UH 60 aviation battalion). We were all shocked.

Now? Not so shocked. It happens all the time.


43 posted on 01/01/2015 7:10:11 AM PST by strider44
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To: strider44; Chainmail
Yes, you’re right of course. It’s my fault that dozens of soldiers in our brigade fail urinalysis for pot routinely. It’s my fault soldiers decide to punch or stab their wives. I’ve caused the multiple sexual assaults we’ve had to deal with. It’s my fault we have soldiers getting caught stealing from the PX. Yup, It’s gotta be me, not the poor character/ lack of morals these soldiers brought into the army. Are all soldiers bad? Of course not. Would all draftees be bad? Of course not. However the percentage of problem soldiers has increased dramatically over my 22 years of observation. That’s just a fact. As a young LT in Germany in the early 90s , I think we had 1 enlisted soldier pop positive for pot in 3 years. I remember the kid because he was one of my best crew chiefs (UH 60 aviation battalion). We were all shocked. Now? Not so shocked. It happens all the time.

That is an argument FOR the draft, according to you, the military is not only desperate for someone to join, they are so desperate that they are getting the dregs of society.

Now imagine if they had millions and millions to choose, from rather than a few stragglers that drift into the enlistment offices, millions of young males that they could exam physically, mentally, drug/crime wise, and interview, and then choose from those millions.

And why do you refuse to acknowledge that females are replacing the males draftees? You keep avoiding the mention of females.

Are you such a modern type officer that you not only don't know about the draft, but have been trained to think that females soldiers are equal to male soldiers?

44 posted on 01/01/2015 8:38:05 AM PST by ansel12 (They hate us, because they ain't us.)
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To: hlmencken3

I support national service for all of our young people. It would build cohesion, identity, and essential military skills. Two years would be a small price for our young to make and we would gain huge benefits as a nation.


45 posted on 01/01/2015 9:07:10 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: strider44

So what action did you take as a leader when your troops popped positive?
Did you take them to Article 15/Court Martial? Did you increase instruction/inspect more often/make yourself available for counseling?

Did you make improvements or just complain?

Leadership requires work. Don’t talk to me about bad troops: the mid-to late 70s were a nightmare. We fixed them and today they are some of the best we’ve ever had. By them time I commanded an artillery battalion, we had zero drug pops and zero Courts Martial and a nearly 100 per cent reenlistment rate. Good young officers and solid Staff NCOs make the difference.


46 posted on 01/01/2015 9:16:36 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail

One could make a case that national service should be required in order to become a full citizen with voting priveleges.

That question actually gets to the heart of the matter - universal suffrage. Allowing people to vote themselves money by taking it from their neighbors or by creating debt for future generations can’t have a good outcome.

All of that is actually a different question than the desireability of a military/civilian service draft.


47 posted on 01/01/2015 9:21:52 AM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: ansel12

I think that all this anti draft crud just masks cowardice. They don’t have the manhood to see their duty and do it and they shiver under the blankets anytime anybody hints at tough duty for their country.

During the height of the anti- Vietnam protests, I had some bossy lady come up to me and yell “I’d never let my son join the Marine Corps!”.
I looked her and said “I didn’t ask my Mom when I joined - and when your son’s a man, he won’t ask you either”.

That shut her up.


48 posted on 01/01/2015 9:23:46 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: hlmencken3

The draft is an equalizer, if all the loopholes are taken out. Otherwise the children of the Kennedys and the Clintons and the Rockerfellers and the Obamas all escape their duty. We should all have the same duty and the same risks. Makes citizenship real, makes wars a lot less likely.


49 posted on 01/01/2015 9:41:24 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: hlmencken3
One could make a case that national service should be required in order to become a full citizen with voting priveleges.

That is the absolute last thing that we want.

50 posted on 01/01/2015 10:39:17 AM PST by ansel12 (They hate us, because they ain't us.)
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To: Chainmail

When someone pops positive for drugs in an aviation MOS they’re gone. The decision is out of my hands. They may or may not get kicked out, but they can never hold an aviation MOS again. No second chances.

As for females, I didn’t mention them because I don’t really deal with them. They’re allowed to hold the MOS, but currently we don’t have a single female pilot or crew chief. I agree with you though, if they’re ever permitted into combat ground units (I know the USMC is experimenting with this) then we’re really screwed.

Improving someone’s character or moral compass is not the same as improving their APFT score. Not my job to tell a soldier how to treat their wife. My point is, they should not have to be told. As I’ve repeated on this thread not all soldiers are bad of course, and not all draftees would be either. My point, through over 20 years of observation is that the troop quality has gone down. Why do you think they altered the APFT standard?

In 1992 about 5% of my soldiers were trouble. Now it’s about 15%. Go ahead and call me a bad officer all you want, just calling it like I see it. Feel free to 3 block me on my next OER. Won’t matter, it’s my last one. Have a good night.


51 posted on 01/01/2015 1:51:32 PM PST by strider44
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To: strider44
I understand where you're coming from but it's always been my view that if they made it through Boot Camp, they have what it takes to succeed. Since our government paid to train these soldiers/Marines - usually a whole lot of money and man-hours - it's a real waste of resources to just let soldiers/Marines fail and get kicked out.

As a lieutenant, I spent more time in the battalion area than home in the evenings and closely monitored the troops' activities and was available for counseling/arrest depending on how they were behaving. Got pretty rough back then, sometimes. Nonetheless, I had a great platoon at the end of my first tour, despite their criminal past.

The whole reason for leaders is to train and maintain the investment and in combat, to make the right decisions in respect to the mission and their lives.

Whether back in the bad old '70s or recently, I didn't see any really bad material. All they needed was direction and supervision.

Someone wise told me that the troops are all that count. They don't come from rich families and in most cases, they are all the treasure their families have. It was and is our responsibility to make sure that we return that investment better than they gave it to us.

52 posted on 01/01/2015 2:06:22 PM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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