Replies

The way this is debated reminds me of a dog chasing its tail. The essential facts are pretty clear.

1. There was a legal definition of "torture," which was illegal on 9-11. Waterboarding did not meet it. That was the legal opinion of OCC in the Justice Department.

2. It was clear that the Geneva Convention did not apply to enemy combatants. At least until one of the dumbest opinions ever from the Supreme Court. Now, nothing is clear.

3. The Army manual on treatment of prisoners prohibits waterboarding or any abuse of prisoners. The Army manual has been adopted by the other uniformed services. The uniformed services did not use the enhanced interrogation techniques.

4. There was no torture at Abu Graib. That was a bunch of stupid soldiers taking prisoners out late at night and then for their amusement abusing them and taking pictures that sometimes faked torture. When it was discovered, they were prosecuted and given prison terms. The press did not discover Abu Graib, the Army did and someone leaked information from the invesigation to the press.

I Agree — those are pretty dang clear.
(BTW, I hate the “third category” the government created [”enemy combatant”] instead of leaving things at the standard lawful/unlawful combatant.)

I'm glad I read through your post twice... and I agree with you, with a few clarifications (in parenthesis):
1. There was a legal definition of “torture,” which was illegal on 9-11. Waterboarding did not meet it.(And was specifically defined as acceptable and authorized) That was the legal opinion of OCC in the Justice Department.

2. It was clear that the Geneva Convention did not apply to (non-uniformed) enemy combatants. At least until one of the dumbest opinions ever from the Supreme Court. Now, nothing is clear.

3. The Army manual on treatment of prisoners prohibits waterboarding or any abuse of prisoners. The Army manual has been adopted by the other uniformed services. The uniformed services did not use the enhanced interrogation techniques.(All prisoner interrogation teams in all DOD branches consist of directly designated, specially trained individuals, and it was always stressed that improper interrogations would result in military charges of misconduct)

4. There was no torture at Abu Graib. That was a bunch of stupid soldiers taking prisoners out late at night and then for their amusement abusing them and taking pictures that sometimes faked torture. When it was discovered, they were prosecuted and given prison terms. The press did not discover Abu Graib, the Army did and someone leaked information from the investigation to the press. (Exactly IAW the UCMJ, but sensationalized by an equally sick and perverted media narrative)