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Understand This ("the rule" is essentially the cloture of the US House)
redstate.com ^ | 12/10/14 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 12/10/2014 5:54:23 AM PST by cotton1706

The House of Representatives is a large body with diverse opinions. Without structure, nothing could get done. In order to both have debate and amendments while also not dragging processes on forever, legislation brought to the floor of the House of Representatives is accompanied by a rule.

That rule sets out the parameters for debate, timeframe for debate, and amendments to the underlying legislation. Legislation rarely goes to the floor of the House of Representatives without a rule. Killing the rule, which is voted on before the legislation, kills the underlying legislation.

Often, members of congress will vote in favor of the rule to get legislation to the floor of the House of Representatives, but then vote against the legislation itself. They enable the legislation to get to the floor, but are often promised that once the legislation gets to the floor, there will be enough votes from the other party to pass it that these members can vote no.

It is a con job. Members of Congress vote for the rule to ensure legislation gets to the floor. The votes are then lined up to pass it without those members’ votes. But for them, the legislation would have died. And now they can say with a straight face they opposed it even though, had they opposed the rule, the legislation would have died.

The House Republicans are going to do this with amnesty. They have loaded up a piece of legislation that is almost two thousand pages long. The legislation will spend a trillion dollars and will fund President Obama’s unconstitutional amnesty. There are most likely not enough Republican votes to pass it because it betrays Republican principles.

But John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi have enough Democrats on board to pass it that it does not matter.

(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; elections
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

“The keystone of Obama’s strategy is a government shutdown. And as president, he cannot be prevented from doing it, by any Congress which refuses to be a rubber stamp.”

Your right. Obama is the matador and a government shutdown is his cape. Now why should the Republicans play the part of the bull? We all know how the bull fight ends, don’t we?


21 posted on 12/10/2014 8:57:22 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Principles without power aren't worth spit.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“You seem to advocate making sure your party comes out unscathed.”

No. I’m advocating that the Republicans waste their energies initiating fights they cannot win.


22 posted on 12/10/2014 8:58:50 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Principles without power aren't worth spit.)
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To: DugwayDuke
That Republicans can't win is your assertion, unbacked by facts. It sounds as if you have taken the council of your fears.

/johnny

23 posted on 12/10/2014 9:29:59 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: donna

Are you kidding? First of all we know “smarts” has nothing to do with it. Second, every republican is taking blame for the shutdown BEFORE it even happens.


24 posted on 12/10/2014 9:32:50 AM PST by VerySadAmerican
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To: cotton1706

Yeah, good suggestion.
The best suggestion in fact.

But, of course, our Reps still must also be held responsible if they re-elect Boehner Speaker.


25 posted on 12/10/2014 9:49:46 AM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: DugwayDuke

Instead of this years long bill the R’s could pass a short CR until the next congress comes in.
No shutdown unless the Dems obviously cause it.


26 posted on 12/10/2014 9:53:08 AM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: DugwayDuke

I’m not really interested in a shutdown, I’m interested in conservatism. The Republicans are just using the anti-shutdown talk as a diversion so they won’t have to do ANYTHING conservative.

Right now they are just “Grubers”. Lying to us to get one more lesser-evil-vote out of us.


27 posted on 12/10/2014 10:00:46 AM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: cotton1706

Yes, I know all about switching votes between cloture and actual bill so the reps can lie to us about their vote. But trying to kill bills through the rules vote is less effective since, per the article, you have Dem yeas anyway there. At least on the final vote you should have a bunch of Dem nos, which means that many fewer Repubs you need to also vote no.

Obviously, yes, we want as many noes as we can get, and as often. I just think, given politician math, it’s much easier to get the noes on the main vote instead of the rule/cloture where everyone and their mother usually votes yes.


28 posted on 12/10/2014 10:32:17 AM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: DugwayDuke
Obama is the matador and a government shutdown is his cape. Now why should the Republicans play the part of the bull? We all know how the bull fight ends, don’t we?
Yes, we do. But Congress can take its time, keep its eyes open, and just push rather than charging. Then when Obama tries the footwork, watch the feet rather than the cape.

29 posted on 12/10/2014 11:06:11 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion ("Liberalism” is a conspiracy against the public by wire-service journalism.)
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To: trad_anglican

There is no need to get any act together in January, since this action funds Obamacare and amnesty through September. Nearly half of the two-year cycle will be encumbered by a previous Congress with a Democrat controlled Senate and Republicans in the House who enabled them.

If that doesn’t make you mad, it ought to.


30 posted on 12/10/2014 1:21:01 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: DugwayDuke
We all know how the bull fight ends, don't we?

Last time, it ended with Republican majorities. The matador got gored.

31 posted on 12/10/2014 1:23:36 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

“Yes, we do. But Congress can take its time, keep its eyes open, and just push rather than charging. Then when Obama tries the footwork, watch the feet rather than the cape.”

Agreed. But that strategy relies upon the matador making a mistake. Not a bad strategy, especially with Obama. But that’s not the strategy advocated by the majority on this board that want to shut the government down this week and keep it shut until Obama resigns and his successor agrees to repeal Obamacare and the amnesty.


32 posted on 12/10/2014 1:29:56 PM PST by DugwayDuke (Principles without power aren't worth spit.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
If that doesn’t make you mad, it ought to

It makes me very mad. It's become SOP for far too long. One thing the republicans can do to begin to solidify their gains in congress is to change it. Without the Senate in the lame duck session, they had little choice. Perhaps a shorter CSR was a possibility that could/should have been taken up, but that's a band-aid. The cure is for congress to stop being scared to take votes and to pass budgets and then appropriations bills that live within those budgets, not CSRs.

That's how they regain the power of the purse strings. This situation didn't arise overnight and it will take some time to fix.

33 posted on 12/10/2014 1:53:41 PM PST by trad_anglican
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To: Svartalfiar

See what I meant? The “rule” barely got by and now the whole bill is crumbling!


34 posted on 12/11/2014 1:14:05 PM PST by cotton1706 (ThisRepublic.net)
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To: DugwayDuke
"...and keep it shut until Obama resigns and his successor agrees to repeal Obamacare and the amnesty."


35 posted on 12/12/2014 6:59:54 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: trad_anglican

“The cure is for congress to stop being scared to take votes and to pass budgets and then appropriations bills that live within those budgets, not CSRs. That’s how they regain the power of the purse strings. This situation didn’t arise overnight and it will take some time to fix.”

We got in this ‘fix’ because of Harry Reid. Reid refused to use normal order to pass appropriations bill since that would cause certain democrats to make politically damaging votes. Once Reid is out in January we can go back to normal order.


36 posted on 12/12/2014 7:43:12 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Principles without power aren't worth spit.)
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To: DugwayDuke
Harry Reid is a lame duck and non-sequinter with the current omnibus and only desires to stir up crap until subjected to minority status.

The ball is in Boehner's court but he decided that Christmas vacation was more important than principle (Power without Principles aren't worth spit).

Also, please give me all the primary sources that every 2014 Congressional candidate ran on a "no government shut-down" platform (You have a lot of writing to do).

September 2013 we heard all this talk about, "OMG, Republicans are going to blow 2014 with this shutdown" BS. It appears sticking to their principles (Although Boehner did make concessions but still got cuts/no rise in taxes) with the two week shutdown gave them more power. Boehner's lame-duck "Christmas Vacation" compilation will put a stop to that in 2016 because principles gave way to expediency. Now the taxpayer is stuck with phantom amnesty while Republican leadership crosses their fingers that the Supreme Court will gut the PPACA to provide cover.

Also answer this, is the Executive Order on amnesty coming at all from Obama? Or, is Obama waiting for the Congress to fund, then write the EO? Maybe Obama won't even write an EO since Congress has just passively passed amnesty by funding the invasion. Sorry to tell you that people won't be buying your "Bull fighting" metaphors in 2016 because the base will be too pissed off to care for games/moderates anymore. Hope you pull-off some dems voters to compensate the people who actually put principles before power (And who says power only comes from a ballot box...)
37 posted on 12/12/2014 9:29:09 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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