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To: RC one

Absolute correct. I have been saying this all night.

He was breathing. Talking means you are breathing.

But trying to get that through some thick skulls is impossible.

“I can’t breathe” and hands up - don’t shoot
One is a lie and one didn’t happen.


213 posted on 12/04/2014 2:49:50 AM PST by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence!)
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To: Aurorales

Absolute should read ...Absolutely


214 posted on 12/04/2014 2:51:44 AM PST by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence!)
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To: Aurorales
Please consider the following medical circumstances which may have come into play. In Pulmonology we define two kinds of limitation of air movement into and out of the lung. One is OBSTRUCTIVE Lung disease. This includes anything which 'obstructs' the movement of air. For example Emphysema or (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is an obstruction of air movement by virtue of destroyed alveoli and scar tissue in the bronchioles (small air tubes). Asthma causes obstruction by spasm of the tiny muscles which circle the bronchioles, and thus when a child is an asthmatic he appears to be barrel chested because he is trying to build up an assist of the external muscles of breathing (intercostals, diaphragm, scalene muscles). These muscles develop hypertryphic changes because they are continually 'exercised' trying to push the air out as opposed to the 'spongy' recoil of normal lungs (assisted with some muscle contraction).

Then there is RESTRICTIVE pulmonary disease. This is a condition where physical conditions restrict the natural movement of air of respiration. For example when one is markedly obiese the lungs cannot expand because the content of the abdomen 'restrict' normal excursion of the lungs to allow air to go into and out of the lungs. Or in a very large person the chest wall may be so heavy that it restricts movement of the lungs. Or when 4 police officers are on top of this man with all of that extra weight complicates and exacerbates that restriction. All of this obstruction and/or restriction diminish the movement of air into the lungs and thus diminish the pO2 level in the blood. With heart disease there will be more inefficient pulmonary artery volumn of blood to 'pick up' or exchanges gases (O2 exchanged for CO2).

Now, with obstruction of the airway such as tumor (occluding, say, 50% of the lumen of the bronchus or trachea) is restricting movement of gases in and out of the lungs. Diphtheria, will cause a 'membrane' to develop in the upper airway and create a smaller passage for air to to in and air to go out. I have seen profound cases of follicular tonsillitis causing obstruction. These are not 100% obstruction, but maybe 50%. Now, many of these people with both obstructive and restrictive lung disease have a marginal reserve of O2 saturation. You and I walk around with a PO2 of 97-98% saturation on room air while the emphysema patient may walk around with a O2 saturation of 91%. When you get to a 90% saturation we begin to put people on ventilators with oxygen given under pressure to "drive" O2 into the alveoli and exchange gases into the lungs.

Now this man had his airway obstructed by external physical pressure being put on his trachea. Now, many of these people as well as the restrictive movement of the muscles caused by the weight of the police officers and the weight of his chest wall and contents of the abdominal cavity. Whether it was 25% or 50% obstructed or 75% obstructed he had such a compromised margin and probably a marginal oxygen saturation level that his fragility and susceptibility to even marginal obstruction was enough to kill him.

To say, "he was speaking indicates he was breathing", is simply to say you do not understand pulmonary physiology enough to speak on the issue.

I do not mean that in a rude way. I do am incredibly ignorant on engineering and rocket science. We all have our forte. But things are more complicated than many are indicating on this thread.

Just food for thought.

409 posted on 12/04/2014 5:43:37 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (w)
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