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To: colorado tanker; PapaNew; Homer_J_Simpson; Steven Scharf
Because I like you guys, I'll give a little Market-Garden sneak preview. Here is a map I first saw when I was in Junior High School. Notice that Monty plans on XXX Corps going all the way to the Zuider Zee, while it looks like the supporting units on the flanks only go a short way to the Wilhemina Canal. It looks to me like Monty wanted XXX Corps to go not just to the Arnhem Bridge, but quite a ways onward.

Market Garden Map photo MarketGardenMap_zps9e842c82.jpg

Can we say "pencil-like thrust?" Yes, I knew that we could. Just what Ike thought Monty was proposing in his "dash to Berlin" plan. Colorado, I think you hit the nail on the head with your observation that Monty was prodded by Patton's success, and very jealous. Even Patton would not have sanctioned this plan. It wasn't feasible.

19 posted on 09/11/2014 5:04:14 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster

I had always thought the followup plan was to turn south and drive in behind the Rhine toward the Ruhr. That’s the first I’ve seen that they planned to turn north, away from Germany.


20 posted on 09/11/2014 5:13:44 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: colorado tanker; Homer_J_Simpson; Steven Scharf; PapaNew
And where did I find this map in Junior High School?

Airborne Carpet Cover photo Airbornecarpetcover_zpsdad5b3ea.jpg

Yep, these books only cost a dollar for 160 pages of history, photos and maps. Damned good historians like Geoffrey Jukes, Earl Ziemke and John Keegan were contributing authors. I still have about two dozen in my library. I started my history library with these gems. Now you know where my allowance money went. These books and giant Sweet Tarts and Charms Big Pops. Forget girls; not on the radar screen. Me on theirs, that is.

21 posted on 09/11/2014 5:16:15 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster; PapaNew; Homer_J_Simpson; Steven Scharf
I think that's the best map of the Market-Garden operation I've ever seen. Thanks!

"Pencil-like thrust." I think I'll leave that one alone!

It was an absurd plan. There was one two lane road for the entire advance. Much of the road was elevated above squishy polders that could not support heavy armor, so there was no room to maneuver. Any stop of the advance leaves airborne troops dangling in Arnhem. The Brits had no sense of urgency and no idea how to pull off such a daring operation. In my opinion the only commander who would have had a chance to pull this off would be Patton, who would kick butt pushing the advance 24/7 until he either got to Arnhem or it fell.

But I agree with you that Patton was too good a commander to adopt such a foolish plan.

It is also interesting to note that the British never even bothered to finish the plan and get over the neder-rijn. They abandoned the plan and turned east to the more direct route into Germany. If you think about it, isn't the more direct route, going over one big river, better than an indirect route through watery Holland? Arnhem finally fell as sort of an afterthought in the aftermath of Operation Plunder, when Monty finally got across the Rhine, but I am getting way ahead of myself.

29 posted on 09/12/2014 10:47:43 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: henkster

He didn’t think the airborne troops would be spread too thin?


33 posted on 09/12/2014 1:19:10 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: henkster; colorado tanker

henkster, do have a link to this map? I agree with colorado tanker, it is a helpful map.


36 posted on 09/12/2014 2:40:15 PM PDT by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate over unjust law & government in the forum of ideas)
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