Putin 'urges talks on statehood for east Ukraine' (Putin Toughens Position)

BBC News ^ | 08/31/2014 | BBC News

[goldstategop]

President Putin has called for talks to discuss "statehood" for eastern Ukraine, Russian media report.

He said the issue needed to be discussed to ensure the interests of local people "are definitely upheld".

His comments came after the EU gave Russian a one-week ultimatum to reverse course in Ukraine or face sanctions.

[BobL]

But what’s the point? If we wanted to annex Northern Mexico, and sent our best troops and hardware in, there is nothing that China or Russia could do to stop us.

No different in Ukraine. The outcome rests TOTALLY in the hands of Putin, if he wants Eastern Ukraine, he gets it...and all indications point to that. If we arm the opposition, then he likely loses more troops on the way, and Ukraine has the pleasure of another Soviet-style bloodbath...but the end product is the same - Putin gets what he wants. So what’s the point?

Now we could try hitting him where he’ll actually feel it, and that being doubling our military spending and increasing SDI funding 5-fold (it’s practically nothing now). That was how Carter/Reagan did it 35 years ago, and they certainly did squeal. But NO ONE, literally NO ONE, will go there. So we look like TOTAL IDIOTS and the only net result of this policy, for us, is watching a bloodbath take place as Ukraine is carved up...rather than watching Ukraine get carved up without a bloodbath.

[wolf78]

We’ve got to say it like it is:

THIS IS RUSSOFASCISM.

And we must do everything (well, short of nuclear war) to stop Putler and his thugs.

[1rudeboy]

Beware those who are for American interests are called something like Putin lovers.

Is that why they post from RT and openly cheer Russian military victories? What patriots.

[BurningOak]

The cum crusted Putin whores on Free Republic are lying as always. East Ukraine will be part of Russia, any autonomy it might be granted will be purely on paper as it will always be occupied by the Russian army and its government will be Kremlin appointed.

[FreedomStar3028]

Attempted? Successful.

[FreedomStar3028]

Did you vote in 2012? A simple yes or no will do.

[SES1066]

There are multiple long-term trends working within this crisis and as culture and tradition frequently trump logic and constraint, the position of Kiev and Ukraine in RUSSIAN history cannot be ignored. Kiev was the first capital of "The Russ", a kingdom founded by Viking Varangians in the late 800s AD. A highly significant event in that history came at the change of the Millennium when Vladimir the Great converted his nation to Orthodox (Byzantine) Christianity. Russia and Vladimir [name note] Putin had a great celebration about the 1,000 years of Russian Christianity rather recently! So when the discussion about Ukraine and its independence comes to the fore, there are more than a few ghosts at the table.

[Berlin_Freeper]

As far as I am concerned, as an American living in Europe, it is not up to me or anyone to compromise parts of Ukraine to sh*thead Putin.

I will always support Ukrainians against the invasion by Russia, which I am sure will continue in one way or another even beyond Putin's Soviet reign of Terror.

Live a good life with proper diet and exercise and you will be around long enough to watch the Chinese do to Russia what the Russians are doing to Ukraine.

[BeadCounter]

It’s written though in the coming decades, Russians will be a minority in their own country, hence, this might be part of the reason for conquest.

[KC_Lion]

As far as I am concerned, as an American living in Europe, it is not up to me or anyone to compromise parts of Ukraine to sh*thead Putin.

Well our leaders have quite the precident that I am afraid they are going to follow?

(Please don't take that wrong way Berlin, My Father is from Germany, but like I said my post, Putin will hit hard and then Compromise a little of position (Western Ukraine) therefore making our side feel like we gained something when in reality we lost East Ukraine.)

Also Excellent point about Siberia and China. In WWII Stalin was terrified that the Japanese would attack him in his rear. And during the tenuous time in '41 and '42 doing so would have spelled disaster for the Soviet Union (The reason the Japanese didn't, is because I think they would terrified of the Soviets too, but in retrospect they SHOULD have)

[no-to-illegals]

http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=nettle+chamberlan&v=GCwm87gc5fQ&qsrc=472

[dfwgator]

Hitler declared war on the US, because he thought doing so would get the Japanese in the fight against the Soviet Union.

The Japs weren’t that stupid.

[Berlin_Freeper]

I think you may be correct. I was just giving my personal perspective.

[Cementjungle]

Well, there’s no super-power to counter his moves, and it’ll be that way for at least 2 more years. He can do pretty much what he wants during this time.

[KC_Lion]

And Yours is a good Perspective to have!

I wish others had it! Then maybe we wouldn't be in this situation.

Gott Geschwindigkeit

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

This post is pinging everyone in this thread (as it will be of common interest), but is only responding to a few people:

Drew68 wrote:

Yep! Russian soldiers haven't even gone through LGBT sensitivity training. How are they supposed to fight?

You are comparing our military to a country where "boyish recruits are subject to homosexual rape by officers as a form of hazing, and the regime protects this" (Robert Zubrin Qtd. in Back from the Dead: The Return of the Evil Empire (Kindle Locations 254-255)). Moscow itself "is a major center of international organized crime, prostitution and drug trafficking. As reported by CNN, child porn is legal in Russia, which has served as a haven for pedophiles. Moscow is not some shining City of God, as Buchanan implies. It is the metropolis of deception. Moscow supports Communist revolutionaries in Africa and Latin America to this very day" (J.R Nyquist Qtd. in the same, Kindle Locations 247-250).

Here are a couple of stories of what it's like to be in the Russian military and subject to rapist homo officers and forced prostitution:

"“When I was standing on duty, two bullies came up to me and shoved me into the stockroom, a soldier serving at one of Moscow’s military units recollects. "They raped me there in turn. It was very painful and revolting. It didn’t take them much time to finish, but the next day I started noticing other soldiers giving me strange looks. I instantly realized that those bastards let everyone know what they had done to me. An officer came up to me one day and said to me point-blank: “Tomorrow you will to serve two clients.” I knew that if I said “no” then I would spend my last days spitting blood. But still, I told him “no.” When the officer heard that, he pulled out pictures of me being raped in the stockroom. “If you don’t serve the clients, you mother will see these pictures,” said he. I was forced into prostitution,” the soldier said.

Another serviceman, named only as Ilya, became a male prostitute during his second month in the army. The young man received a letter from his girlfriend. “The sergeant told me that day that I would no longer need girls. He and three other men forced me to go behind the barracks to the abandoned construction site. They made me kneel their, tied me up to a lamppost and hit me several times in the groin. The pain was so strong that I lost the will to fight them back. They made me open my mouth and raped me. I don’t remember how long it continued. When I came to my senses I didn’t want to live. I was seriously thinking about committing suicide. I was shocked that the rapists were visiting me regularly afterwards bringing fruit and vodka for me. When it ended they made me a prostitute,” Ilya said."

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/15-02-2007/87441-army_prostitute-0/

This is Russia, the Christian Empire, the paragon of virtue that can lecture the gay liberal West!

BobL writes:

I also find it VERY INTERESTING that NO ONE screaming for war with Russia has suggested beefing up our military spending - not McCain, not the people on THIS SITE, NO ONE.

I have, though I am not sure if I have done it recently. I have even advocated that we utilize the same type of war preparations as the Russians, building bunkers to survive a nuclear war, and training the population on how to survive a conflict between nuclear powers. If the Russkies are preparing for it, we should too.

But the Russian military isn't as dangerous as you make it out to be. We never hear of American soldiers dying 300 at a time in conflicts against fat, retired soldiers or volunteer young people who have a few weeks of training, as they are in Ukraine. In their invasion of Georgia, they were disorganized and ill-equipped. They like to boast that the Georgians were trained by the U.S., but the Georgians did not have fighting spirit, which is what counts for more than training, as the Ukrainians show us. Nor do we hear about American Officers biting off the ears of soldiers who refuse to carry out criminal orders, as occurred in Chechnya with the Russians. The Russians are often disorganized and drunk, and the only time their operations go smoothly is when there is only rape and looting involved, which is their traditional pastimes. What we hear about in Ukraine, Georgia or Chechnya, the mass murder, desecration of bodies, abuse of their own soldiers, burying them in ditches and the like, is not new. In WWII they raped and murdered people just for fun, and when too drunk, they used bottles or other objects, piercing women through their genitals and out their stomachs and then setting them on fire while still (mostly) alive. This is their traditional method of warfare, and we will kill them the way we usually kill Communists, a thousand at a time.

The only thing the Russians have going for them are their nuclear weapons, which they have been building and cheating on for years (while our stockpile deteriorates and where our politicians, like Obama, are working to disarm) and their willingness to throw Russian troops into the meat grinder in large numbers.

That is why Russian/Chinese strategy relies so heavily on deception and subversion of our culture, leadership and military. The only fair fight for a Russkie is the traditional one, where the man is tied up and they are beating on the woman:

Palmer writes:

Unlike the handful of perennial warmongers here and the people they have duped into believing that losing Ukraine is the end of the world

It is not warmongering to say that Russia and its allies China, Iran, North Korea, etc., are the evil empire and a threat to the United States. Nor is it wrong to say that letting Russia take over Ukraine, or France, or Finland, is very bad and needs to be opposed. Well, maybe not so much for France.

Liberaltarians are dangerous to this country since they have the same reaction as surrender monkey liberals who think that nobody means us harm. They do not know human nature or history.

reefdiver writes:

Putin also has no appetite for a war with the West.

The invasion of Ukraine is, in fact, an attack on the West, as was Georgia. Russia will continue to gobble up countries just like the Soviet Union did during the Cold War. We are in a new Cold War, and it is the United States that is targeted as Russia's primary enemy.

There are multiple long-term trends working within this crisis and as culture and tradition frequently trump logic and constraint, the position of Kiev and Ukraine in RUSSIAN history cannot be ignored.

Kiev has always had a very different culture than the Russians, who, actually, rather stole the name "Russia" from the Ukrainians. There was a Kievan Kingdom when Moscow was still wilderness. They are related to each other the same way those subhumans from Lovecraft's "The Lurking Fear" were distantly related to the protagonist. The Muscovites have the oriental despotism that they inherited through the Mongols, and they've never gotten rid of it.

[mac_truck]

Poland, Romania and Bulgaria are in NATO and they should have some Soviet weapons.

Those countries have been sending their Soviet stuff to the Ukraine for months. No amount of weapons will make the Ukies better fighters...

[no-to-illegals]

Funny ... but am not thinking of Rainy Days and Mondays ... All will come ... All will go as before ... but today is Sunday in the Nest.

[Krosan]

I have only seen rumors and speculations about weapons being sold to Ukraine. Only official info is about countries helping Ukraine with non-lethal stuff like helmets and night vision goggles.

[Grzegorz 246]

More of anti-western PsyOps. “We are homo crap, we better stay away and don't even say a word or Vladimir Putin is going to destroy us with one finger.” Pathetic.