As always, you come completely unglued when somebody calls you out. Your Viet Nam remark was ill-timed and rude and you know it.
I don’t give a good goddam what your credentials are. There are perhaps a 100 people on Free Republic with Masters in history so don’t get so high and mighty. And I must say I always have to laugh when the CAPITAL LETTERS COME OUT and the use of “Madam” starts. That’s when I know someone has either lost the plot or lost the argument.
I know you’d like to think that the British lost the war to an elite fighting force that would make the Spartans look like marshmallows but the fact is that the Americans were underfunded, conscripted and rebellious. As I’ve said twice now, they did indeed turn themselves around (with the help of a few allies) and managed to rout the British. You’ll need to accept that fact one day - I hope. That is why I suggested Private Martin’s book - a primary source as I said and one I’m surprised you haven’t read since you are lecturing young minds full of mush, as Rush would say.
Now that I’ve had my usual argy-bargy with you, perhaps I’ll take my yearly visit to Monmouth Battlefield and bring flowers to rest in the tall grass where so many young British soldiers died from heat exposure. May their souls rest in peace.
OK, I have calmed down a bit, due to lovely weather, soccer results going the way I wanted them to, and going to see Zulu (50th anniversary remastered edition) at the cinema (which is why I haven’t replied for nearly a day).
Firstly, my ‘Nam remark is not rude or shameful or any of the frankly OTT nonsense you have called it. It is not offensive to state a fact. It WOULD have been offensive and shameful if I had ridiculed those who served, or the 58,000 loss of men and women in the war. There is a difference between that (attacking/ridiculing those who fought) and just saying a country lost a war.
America lost the Vietnam war. That’s a fact. Just as the British lost the Revolutionary War. Or Germany lost two world wars. Or Argentina lost the Falklands War. Its simply fact. A statement of fact. And to try and suggest simply stating said fact is somehow offensive to veterans is utterly ridiculous.
Secondly, I only mentioned my ‘goddamn credentials’ when YOU criticised my alleged lack of knowledge. I mentioned my MA in order to tell you that I am actually academically trained in the history we are discussing. With all due respect, YOU opened that particular door and yet you criticise me for stepping forward into it.
Thirdly, I was angry because I have never been and never will be anti-American and would never, ever, ridicule those who served the United States of America. In fact, I would be the first to shake their hand. And buy them a pint. So I will never react gently to anyone accusing me of ridiculing military men and women. I served in the military myself (albeit p/t) and will not allow anyone I see or hear to ridicule the military. I find such a charge as repugnant as accusing me of anti-Semitism or racism.
I am sorry if you misread the reference as such, it was nothing but a repost to another member cheekily and in good humour winding this Limey up about losing the Revolution. In fact, the actual poster took no offence(!) and preceded to wind me up about Dunkirk, which I took in the good spirit intended.
Fourth, I have no problem with the British losing the 1776-83 war. In case you didn’t know, I am a relation of one Alexander Hamilton. And I’d have been a ‘rebel’ in 1776.
They were right in 1776 to fight, they fought only for the rights they deserved and which were being denied them. No, I would have fought at my relation’s side back then, no doubt.
And as a Scotsman, we fought on both sides. The Scots and Ulster Scots (again I have Ulster Scots blood) were in fact the backbone of the victorious American forces. A fact of which I am immensely proud. And can bore people to death with, lol. The tradition of Scottish freedom, from Calgacus through Wallace and Bruce, stood true in 1776 and again prevailed.
As one astute English writer put it: ‘This is not an American revolution, but a Scotch Presbyterian revolution’.
The war was one created by British arrogance and stupidity, and need never have been fought, a tragedy, a war which many forget was deeply unpopular at home, where many, from public to politicians and press, had great sympathy for the ‘rebels’ cause.
As to the armies, I don’t believe the British were defeated by supermen, but I also know that they weren’t defeated by rag-wearing farmers with no shoes and armed with pointed sticks. I hate the romantic history (which I have seen many Americans post here and elsewhere) that has the British defeated by almost pathetic human specimens, where the American armies are so downtrodden and hopeless its almost self-parodic.
That itself is almost an insult to and obscures what the Americans did in seven years to beat the British, how they brilliantly turned things around and built armies and militias capable to winning a war nobody thought they could. THAT is the real history, not some pseudo-romantic ‘The Patriot’ type tosh, with Mel Gibson running about.
As to the book, no I have not read it. It wasn’t part of my academic list as a student, and I couldn’t tell you if it was part of the list for students over here, although I studied the era fairly heavily, as Imperial History was the main basis of my later BA years and also my MA, I didn’t specialise in British America history of the period. I specialised in British military history of the 20th C (MA) and previously specialised in British colonies in India and the Far East (BA). Esp. the Scottish influences on both.
Neither did I read it for fun back then nor have I read it as a layman/lecturer since. I HAVE seen the book in bibliographies, but simply haven’t read it. Thank you for the recommendation. Now after all this, lol, I WILL most definitely read it.
I occasionally have done/ do ‘bank’ lecturing, only ever on Ayrshire or Scottish history. To mature students at a local college. The basic stuff: Roman Scotland, early Scottish kingdoms, Wallace, Bruce, the Wars of Independence, 1715 and 1745, the Union with England. Its what we call ‘pin money’: a few weeks, once a week. A few extra quid that pays a bill or petrol. And I haven’t done it since 2011. Although I am slated to do a course in Jan-May 2015.
Lastly, thank you for your respect for British dead in the US. In fact, your remark has got my thinking about searching for American graves here in Scotland. I would love to find some military graves here and equally pay my respects.
All the best.