Posted on 08/15/2014 9:11:50 AM PDT by Zhang Fei
MOSCOW—Ukrainian artillery destroyed a large part of a column of armored vehicles that had been seen entering Ukraine from Russia, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Friday.
Ukraine, backed by Western capitals, has for weeks accused Russia of sending men and heavy weapons to pro-Russia rebels that hold several towns and cities in Ukraine's east.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Is that a good estimate according to your posted poll?
Sure sounds like you know something most other folks don't.
Putin’s terrorists couldn’t take Odessa, they couldn’t take Dnepropetrovsk, they couldn’t even take Kharkov. That was when they had the cover story that they were Ukrainians. What makes you think Russian invaders will do any better? If Ukrainians did not support the “Ukrainian rebels,” why would they support Russian invaders? Putin has not divided Ukraine, he has united it against Russia. Putin’s war crimes against Ukraine have already driven the Russian economy into the toilet and cost Russia a trillion rubles. Trying to take the whole Eastern Ukraine would not just cripple Russia, it would destroy it. Putin’s Neo-Soviet stupidity is going to do to Russia what his Soviet bosses did to the EVIL EMPIRE, shatter it to pieces!
You may very well be right. But as an old Cold Warrior I learned not to underestimate the Russians for fear of being approached from behind and hit with a sledgehammer.
Yanukovych ran on a Pro-EU platform. This did not change until after the election was already over. Voting for him then is not the same as voting for him after that turn, and the shootings and beatings and other such things. Here is Pew on the matter for what I referenced:
"The headline result of Pew’s Ukrainian survey is that a large majority of Ukrainians (77%) want the country to remain united. This isn’t terribly surprising, but what is interesting is the large majority in favor of union in the eastern part of the country (70%), where Russian separatism is at its highest. Even among Russian speakers in the eastern part of Ukraine, a solid majority (58%) want to see Ukraine stay whole."
http://www.lobelog.com/poll-soft-support-for-ukrainian-separatism-putin-has-strong-backing-at-home/
Remind me never to enter into an agreement with you or shake hands over anything.
““We had a treaty with Ukraine” Incorrect... We had a “Memorandum of Understanding”
Remind me never to enter into an agreement with you or shake hands over anything.”
That would be your hero, Bill Clinton. Not me...
Less than that, since, even of that minority that did not say they favored separatism, part of those are on the fence, and they're probably even more on the fence or outright opposed now after having a couple of months of kidnappings and random killings by the Russians. The Pew poll I posted to you a moment ago was from April.
"So despite the recent unrest caused by pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukrainian cities like Donetsk, Luhansk, and Slovyansk, only a small minority of Ukrainians in that part of the country want the right to secede — 18% overall, and only 27% of Russian speakers."
From same link as before
Who cares what anythings sounds like to you Russkie bootlicker. Climb back into your vodka bottle.
From what I have read about people writing from the area it is less now. Russian propaganda TV had a larger influence on them when it was blasting lies about supposed horror in Western Ukraine and Russia as savior of the East.
When the people saw the things militants did and how the same Russian TV was lying about what happens in their own neighborhood (i.e lies about Ukrainian soldiers gathering all town to witness how they crucify a toddler) then more people saw very clearly it is not to be trusted.
Ukraine’s ‘Oligarchs ‘Are Still Calling the Shots
The revolutionaries of the Maidan wanted to end crony capitalism. But it’s back with a vengeance.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/14/ukraines_oligarchs_are_still_calling_the_shots_0
On the other hand, the sanctions which Putin has aggravated by banning food purchases in Europe and US, and brain and capital flight may be Putin’s downfall.
Remember what I said earlier about Kiev making false claims because something made the media???
And now THIS:
Ram Ramgopal
CNN
US says it can’t confirm Ukrainian claims of disabling vehicles in a Russian military convoy inside Ukraine
https://twitter.com/RamCNN
Despite the name calling by some people that don’t like truths, truths do eventually come out.
“the sanctions which Putin has aggravated by banning food purchases in Europe and US, and brain and capital flight may be Putin’s downfall.”
That must explain why the Prime Minister of Finland went to Russia today, to tell Putin Finland will not honor any new EU sanctions against Russia, and requested exemption from the Counter-Sanctions.
Finland will impose no new sanctions on Russia – Finnish PM
http://rt.com/news/180384-finland-no-sanctions-russia/
Finland’s Niinisto to Putin: sanctions bite both, let’s discuss Ukraine
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/uk-ukraine-crisis-russia-finland-idUSKBN0GF0X920140815
Yes, Russia could nuke its neighbors and is happy to use that threat to bully them to have its way. It could also round citizens up in neighboring countries, like it once did, and send them to the Gulag. Or it could ethnically cleanse ethnic minorities for security reasons, like it did to the Tatars. Or it could murder military officers in neighboring countries, like it did in the Katyn Massacre in Poland. Or Russia could deliberately starve millions of the Ukrainians like it did in the 1930s. We should never doubt Russia’s ability for cruelty and mass murder.
Very good point. Tymoshenko didn’t even speak Ukrainian until later in life. Putin gushed about how good she was to work with. Now, I think she wants to rip the Russians’ guts out with her bare hands...
Could be, although some info. was available even here on FR. It's hard to hide an armored column, and apparently this one was spotted even by news organizations.
The US does have to be a little careful with intel, as Ukraine still has some way to go in purging traitors from their ranks. But where we can help without unduly endangering our methods and sources any more than they already are, we should.
Putin may be able to take part or all of Ukraine, but, assuming the West provides Ukraine with modest support (think Afghanistan) he will never be able to hold it. Russia will lose 10,000+ soldiers just taking it (all of Ukraine). Plus, the gas lines to Europe will be destroyed, putting a serious dent in the Russian economy.
That Memorandum was reaffirmed several times, by multiple heads of State.
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