Posted on 08/03/2014 11:41:20 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
There is widespread agreement that Putin stumbled badly with his plans for “Novorossiya”—the archaic, Tsarist-era term for Eastern Ukraine that he and his propagandists have dusted off. After the quick success in Crimea, met with toothless and fairly muted outrage from the West, Putin apparently hoped to use the same modus operandi in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions: having a motley crew of disaffected locals and Russian “volunteers” seize power by taking over city and regional government buildings, hold referendums and declare independence. His goal may not have been annexation—a bit too much even for the accommodating international community to swallow—but gaining enough leverage to keep Ukraine cowed, demoralized, and unfit for European Union partnership.
As Putin learned the hard way, “Novorossiya” is no Crimea. A large percentage of Crimea’s population did support unification with Russia (even if the official referendum results were bogus, as confirmed by data disclosed by a government-affiliated Russian human rights group). In Eastern Ukraine, on the other hand, widespread distrust of the new pro-Western government in Kiev did not translate into separatist sentiment: in a Pew poll in April, secession was viewed as a permissible option by only 18 percent of the region’s population and 27 percent of its Russian speakers. The “referendums” in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions lacked even the patina of legitimacy that the Crimea vote had, and even Russia didn’t quite have the nerve to recognize it. ....
The shoot-down of Flight MH17, which killed 298 people on board, was both a tragic twist of fate and a natural outcome of Russia’s reckless actions: creating a war zone on European soil and supplying powerful, army-grade weapons to a ragtag militia with a lot of crazy extremists, thugs and thrill-seekers among them was bound to have unintended consequences, none of them good.
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...
Same as the U.S. emperor.
"We moved our base camp last night and we’re now positioned literally
within feet of the river. Have been sitting here watching the border
patrol patrolling in their riverboats all night and all morning..."~Jim Robinson
Please support Free Republic
click the pic
Must be using ubamao’s tailor.
And our president’s clothes have no president.
Russia has ALWAYS been ruled by the Mob.. “some Mob”.. different mobsters...
Whether Tsar(King) or Communist or democractic.. it’s a MOB..
Ruled by the majority guided and intimidated by an elite Cabal..
Same in China and India and quite literally every where on this planet..
NOTHING changed (at all) UNTIL the American Constitution..
THEN a Sea change in political concepts...
Little wonder the entire evil political world has been set to abrogate it (since)..
TO GET THINGS back to normal.. total Mob Rule by mobsters..
You know.. DEMOCRACY.. Mob Rule by mobsters.. IN EVERY CASE..
Who is for this.?.. DEMOCRATS.. “progressives”..
He may not have clothes, but he has the Topol, which we don’t even come close to matching.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM_Topol
No one was polled in Luhansk at all (had none of the polled cities), and if proportionality was consistent across the cities polled, then less than 100 were polled in Donetsk. What this article is doing is like staring at poll numbers for the entire USA, and declaring it tells you the distinctive opinion of a particular state (when the results weren't reported by state) Whatever true opinion the rebelling area has is diluted and lost in the overwhelming majority of people polled from outside the region.
the original map didn’t look that big on the screen sorry
We still have enough ICBM’s, SLBM’s, cruise missiles and nuclear bombs to fry Russia to a crisp.
Out of principle we oppose Obama, and for the same reason we oppose Putin.
“We still have enough ICBM’s, SLBM’s, cruise missiles and nuclear bombs to fry Russia to a crisp.”
Not if Obama gets his way...
“Meanwhile, there are many signs that Putin’s billionaire pals are already chafing at the costs of his adventurism. Even before the latest sanctions, there were reports, based on German intelligence sources, of a power struggle in the Kremlin between hardliners and business leaders. Early in July, a similar report of a split between “hawks” and “doves” within Russia’s power elites appeared in the Russian online newspaper Znak.com, which Russian online media analyst and Moscow Times columnist Victor Davidoff told me has connections to Kremlin insiders. Today’s Russian elite, unlike the Soviet-era nomenklatura with its home-based dachas and luxury foods, has a lot to lose in the West. The latest reminder of this fact comes from reports on the U.S. properties of Mikhail Lesin, former press minister and currently head of a giant state-controlled media holding, who may soon become the target of a federal money laundering investigation. Lesin and his immediate family members own multiple residences in the Los Angeles area said to be worth at least $28 million.”
Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/08/03/russias_emperor_has_no_clothes_123545.html#ixzz39MPxmkzO
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter
that is interesting
Obama’s “Russian reset” has proved to be a laughable failure. It won’t happen again. Putin’s actions have made sure of that.
I sure hope so...but you never know with this bunch.
You may have a point...Drudge has an article about things falling apart with Russia. Here’s a piece of it:
“After the negotiation of the modest New START treaty in 2010, progress toward another round of nuclear warhead reductions is dead in the water and unlikely to be revived during President Barack Obama’s term in office.”
If the above plays out, we may all be THANKING PUTIN for stopping Obama from DISARMING. Russia is NOT the only player in the game anymore as China is building up quick. So, hopefully, we’re done with our nuke disarming for a while, at least.
Maybe Idiot Joe Biden will invite him to go skinny dipping.
Second, it's important to remember that Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts are, along with Kiev itself, the most densely populated regions in Ukraine.
The two regions combined have a population of roughly 7 million people, with Eastern Ukraine having a total population of 9 million people. Pew included Southern Ukraine in their regional definition of Eastern Ukraine, which has a combined population of 10 million people. So the affected provinces constitute around 7 million out of a combined regional population of 19 million, or roughly 7/19 = 37%
So let's assume that the entire 18% who want secession in Eastern Ukraine were located in Donetsk and Luhansk, and the rest of Eastern Ukraine was 100% for unity. Which is as impossibly misleading as the poll could theoretically be.
18/0.37 = 49% in favour of secession in Luhansk and Donetsk and 0% in favour of secession in the rest of Eastern Ukraine (Pew's definition) Yeah, right. Whatever true opinion is diluted in Pew's generalizations, it does not change the conclusions; that the majority of Eastern Ukrainians, including those in the Donbass, don't want to secede.
Wow, your math is WAY off.
Nice try, but you missed so many provinces defined as Eastern Ukraine by Pew. None of these were included in your calculations, they all should have been.
1) Kirovohrad million people
2) Poltava 1.6 million
3) Sumy 1.3 million
4) Kharkiv 2.7 million
5) You also estimated the population of Eastern Ukraine at 9 million, but you are way off, your own source says 14.5 million. So your calculations are off by an additional 5.5 million more people there.
6) Eastern + Southern + Pew’s additional provinces from central defined as eastern (1-4 above) =
14.5 million + 9.7 million (excludes crimea) + 6.6 million
Total of Pews “eastern” ukraine definition 30.8 million
Polled area (donetsk + luhansk) = 6.6 million
21%.
You’re claiming Pew’s poll of “Eastern Ukraine” tells us what the rebelling region thinks, when that region only represents 21% of their poll numbers.
You can’t say that with a straight face.
Of course it is ridiculous that Pew defined these provinces as Eastern Ukraine — but that just makes it more ridiculous and misleading for someone to say these results are indicative of what the rebelling region in the east thinks.
It’s really funny that you fell into the same error.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.