Poland's Walesa kneels in prayer at funeral mass for former foe Jaruzelski

Reuters ^ | 5/30/2014 | JAKUB IGLEWSKI AND CHRISTIAN LOWE

[dfwgator]

(Reuters) - Lech Walesa, head of the Solidarity movement that ended Communism in Poland, knelt in prayer on Friday at a Catholic funeral mass for General Wojciech Jaruzelski, the Communist leader who for decades was his sworn enemy.

[dfwgator]

I did not expect Jaruzelski's funeral to be a Catholic mass. I sincerely hope his return to the faith of this childhood was sincere, and not a cynical ploy.

[dfwgator]

Ping

[wastedyears]

He’s Polish, I doubt he’s a Pelosi-style Catholic.

[henkster]

I don’t think he had anything to gain by faking it. I’d like to believe it was sincere.

[House Atreides]

Walesa is a good Catholic, he believes in forgiveness.

[huckfillary]

I am a lifelong Polish-Catholic. Kneeling is required at certain parts of the Mass, regardless of whom the Mass is offered for. It’s required and it’s universal.

[dfwgator]

I still believe at the time in 1981, he acted on his own, and not because the Soviet invasion was imminent.

And the question is, if hardliners had stayed in power in the Soviet Union, instead of Gorbachev, would Jaruzelski have softened as he did?

But, having said that, yes, perhaps with the years passing, he truly saw the error of his ways. Now one might say, why did he wait until he knew he was at death's door to return to the faith, but I'll leave that between God and him.

And if indeed he goes to Heaven, may Father Popiełuszko be the first to welcome him.

[blu]

like and agree.

[x_plus_one]

General Wojciech Jaruzelskiwas the man who stopped Russia from sending troops to retake poland. He stalled them off long enough. He is held to blame for much but in the end he was the one that kept the Russians from sending in tanks like they did in Prague in 1968. He was a party man but a christian first and foremost. In a time of close scrutiny he held his beliefs close to his heart and kept quiet. He rose in the party due to his discretion. He used his power to help Poland - remember the weeks where he was ordered to retake Gdansk and did not do so. He was the only one in Poland who could stall the Russians. He was ordered by Moscow to do this and that and stalled them off. He is a quiet hero. He does not deserve the blame accorded him.

[iowamark]

Jaruzelski was an atheist but a clergyman at the cathedral said that, 13 days before his death, he had asked a Catholic priest to administer the last rites.

[trebb]

I am a lifelong Polish-Catholic. Kneeling is required at certain parts of the Mass, regardless of whom the Mass is offered for. It’s required and it’s universal.

Interesting that folks try to find ways that might mean that Lech was merely following protocol vs. actually practicing forgiveness in his heart. It's also interesting that, with little to nothing to go on, folks all in Lech's head and heart with "explanations" that make them feel better, but have no bearing on what Lech did/thought.

[Jabba the Nutt]

Why wouldn’t Walesa kneel? He won, and in his view, God won. The commie tyrant ended up as a Catholic with a Catholic Mass at his funeral. Who would have predicted that in 1980?

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks dfwgator.

[elpadre]

Kneeling is the proper position for prayer for Catholic and Orthodox Christians.

[trebb]

Why wouldn’t Walesa kneel? He won, and in his view, God won. The commie tyrant ended up as a Catholic with a Catholic Mass at his funeral. Who would have predicted that in 1980?

Good points. I prefer to acknowledge that he knelt and leave the reasoning up to him - a number of folks here either see some faux pas or have to come up with a "rationale" vs. just observing the event.

I also pray for those who really disgust me to feel the loving touch of the Holy Spirit that they may be saved and granted eternity in Heaven - the lesson of Jonah is absolutely clear to me.

[njslim]

If Russian invaded would have been mass upraising

Unlike Prague in 1968, Poles would have resisted (think
Warsaw 1944 Home Army vs Nazi)

Would have been bloody

Pope John Paul II said would have left Vatican for Poland

Interesting to think what Reagan would have done in that case......

[dfwgator]

New Evidence Shows Poland’s Ex-Dictator Jaruzelski Guilty Of High Treason (wanted Soviet invasion)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2403985/posts

[Defiant]

I always thought it possible that the interaction between Walesa and Jaruzelski was a form of theater for the consumption of the Soviets. Jaruzelski had to play his role to avoid an invasion and Walesa was organizing the country to be in position to be free when the opportunity presented itself. Without Jaruzelski, if a reformer or moderate had been put in place in 1984, there could well have been an invasion, and things might have turned out differently in Europe. When the Soviet threat went away, Jaruzelski's job was done. The people could take over.

Whether the general's intent was that, we can never know. But I think he gave Walesa and his movement the maximum amount of slack that he could without inviting invasion. And that worked out for everyone.

[Grzegorz 246]

Jaruzelski became a general in his early 30’s and a chief of general staff in early 40’s. Dude had been groomed for years to become a high level commie official and that is very telling... He was also involved in many nasty operations long before being appointed a member of the commie government. Regarding marital law, there's a lot of disinformation and propaganda on both sides and It will take at least several decades more before it is clear what were his real options at that time but... It's not that Kremlin guys were dreaming about full scale invasion of Poland, they knew it would be bloody and extremely expensive and Soviet Union back then was already significantly weakened. They wanted to retain control over Poland and that was what Jaruzelski did guarantee them, without a single Soviet soldier killed and a damn ruble spent. On the other hand he was not a madman like Ceausescu or a mass murderer like many African/ME dictators but a hero of any kind he sure wasn't.

[Matt_DZ_PL]

Instytut Pamieci Narodowej (Institute for the National Remembrance), the official state agency which was set up for searching and archiving the crimes against the Polish people, has overly stated that Jaruzelski (read:yaruzelski) was a substantial source of information (his secret nickname Wolski) for the communist political police in early 50s. Due to his reports many Polish army officers were arrested, prosecuted and even murdered, and then buried in unknown place without any signs, first pouring lime on their corpses.

This has been proved and leaves no doubts. Actually, Jaruzelski was a regular renegade. He neither deserves an official burial nor any place of bury in the Powazki Cemetary(read:povonski), the place for Polish national heroes.

As to Walesa.... Sorry, this forum is not a proper place for the words I should use to describe the man.