Replies

These ones especially. If you don't see the danger, you need to take off your blinders.

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land

History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry

Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates

What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

It sounds to me like they are only emulating the conservative Putin. After all Putin has nationalized major enterprises and controls Russian banking almost completely. When the richest man in Russia wanted to sell his oil company to the west, Putin exiled him to Siberia and nationalized the company.

Putin's adoring fans often say how much he loves his country. We certainly hear Putin label anyone who disagrees with him as a “Russophobe.” Could it be that Svoboda are pursuing similar policies to Putin because they also love their country too? Could it be they just don't want gays adopting Ukrainian children? Putin fans even say they like him and his policies so much, they would like him to be President of the USA. If Putin's ideas are good enough for the USA, then why not Ukraine?

Putin threatens to murder millions with nuclear missile strikes on the USA, why should Ukraine not have the same ability? Clearly they made a mistake when they gave up their nukes. Shouldn't they be more like Putin and threaten their neighbors with nuclear missile attacks like Putin does? Shouldn't everyone try to be as much like Putin as they can?

Svoboda platform directly from the source

LJ, your analysis and research skills and logical thinking serve you well on the eligibility threads. Use them on these topics, as well. Many of your ideas are coming directly from Russian state-run media.

First of all, you are entirely too obsessed with the supposed Nazis running Ukraine. It seems like you think that everything Ukraine does is bad, because it's all controlled by Nazis. Instead, you need to consider what the government and the people are doing without looking at what political party they belong to, but whether or not their actions are supportive of the country and it's people.

Have you even read through the Svoboda platform linked in #15? I'd like to see a Republican platform as conservative (in our sense) as most of that document. If I'm counting correctly, there are 211 items in the platform. You've picked out seven you object to. It that's all you can find, you need to reconsider your position. But let me address the seven you highlighted:

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”
A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this item is, but leaping to the conclusion that it's for imprisonment and execution is highly questionable. But I'll let you have that one.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land
History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

If you actually read the platform, you would notice that this is in the section for getting rid of corruption and control by the oligarchs. And it's not a complete ban on private property. They want to require 30% government control of national finances. i.e. establish a national bank. There is no restriction on private bank ownership. There is also no restriction on property ownership. In fact, other items talk about requiring that condominium owners be allowed to own a proportional share of the land and building, not just their apartment. There are low cost, no interest, and free housing proposals. It sounds to me like they're trying to increase private ownership.

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry
Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

Here, they are trying to encourage local production and improve the national economy. The only things nationalized are the enterprises (not entire industries) that make the oligarchs rich and violate laws. I didn't see anything at all in the platform that says the state needs to own and control these things. They even propose low or no-interest loans to small and medium business to help them compete and grow.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates
What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

I'll have to double-check with my wife, but I believe this is pretty much a non-issue for the vast majority of Ukrainians. It's kind of a "it's always been done this way" until fairly recently. But I'll leave the question open for now.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions
Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

If you would actually read the document, you wouldn't jump to such asinine conclusions. Ukraine's population desperately needs to grow. They're trying to keep Ukrainian kids in their home country. They also have quite a few proposals to encourage Ukrainians to stay in Ukraine, and to encourage those who moved to other countries to return. And they're giving preferential treatment to Ukrainian citizens in their universities. Is there something wrong with that? Try taking away in-state tuition preferences in the U.S. and you'll have a revolution on your hands.

Speaking of population building, their platform calls for banning almost all abortions. You're for that, aren't you?

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use
Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

Again, please read the document. It doesn't say what you claim at all. Basically, they're saying that land ownership needs to be allowed to pass to your children. And that land that is being abused (by oligarchs, criminals, etc.) or not being used for it's intended purpose can be confiscated by the government. It would then be either public land, or sold to someone who would take care of it properly. Sounds like "land management" to me, and not as intrusive as BLM or EPA.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry
Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

Again, you're confusing an alleged Nazi conspiracy with legitimate national security goals. Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for agreements that have been broken by everybody except them. They had nukes and gave them up! Considering their neighborhood, I don't blame them.

Now I know a party platform doesn't guarantee anything (see the Republican platform vs how many Republican representatives actually vote) but it is a pretty good indication of how the party actually wants things to be.

Yes, there are some things I don't agree with in Svoboda and Pravi Sektor, and other groups. But if you stop looking at them with nothing but hate, you will find a lot of good things there.

I think it's absurd for the journalist to ‘frequently’ compare Maidan to the Anti-Kiev citizens who desire Self-Rule. Maiden was a violent coup of Ukraine's Nation Government. What is happening in Eastern Ukraine is a resistance to the unelected officials, who they see as fascists, supported by the US Gov. and a threat to the very Unity Maiden claimed.

Maidan was not in the middle of a war between outside factions as is happening in Eastern Ukraine.......nor have they had the financial backing of billions of dollars over a long period of time, or that of “organizers” to establish their intentions as Maidan had.

This has been a ground roots uprising of the people, and identified as that from the beginning until the Private Sector and their hired thugs began opposing and infiltrating their protests, just as they did with Maidan. Even the Atlantic Council and the international Leaders identify that Private Sector and their cohorts are a serious problem .....and there has been an effort in the EU now to call Private Sector a terrorist group..because they are.

However, you cannot even remotely convince those here, who somehow think Svodboda and Private Sector have reformed their ways, yet at the same time they refuse Russia that same reformation..... Dogs don't change their spots....and in Ukraine we are seeing this remains so.

Furthermore...any Journalist who steps into Ukraine knows well these are a violent and easily suspicious people...and that BTW with good cause. This guy knew the risk and also the brutality that might occur by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He assumed that risk all on his own.