Separatists are demoralized. They can be finished off

Inforesist ^ | 5/9/2014 | Catherine Shapoval

[WildSnail]

The translation is from Inforesist. The original article is at http://hubs.com.ua/authority/separatistyi-demoralizovanyi-ih-mozhno-dodavit.html

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks WildSnail.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Thanks for the article!

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

Thank you for this post. This article supports the information I have received

[meatloaf]

Same here. While the Russian disinformation program continues the reality is breaking through. Time is not on the Russian’s side.

[little jeremiah]

Why do you refuse to post your opinion about Svoboda’s platform, which you yourself posted on the thread below? I’ve aksed you several times and in 2 days so far, you have refused to answer. It is in important request, since many of the platforms of Svoboda are downright fascist. Do you support Svoboda on their platform or not?

I am reposting this because I think it is very important everyone understands (a) Svoboda’s platform and (b) that you yourself posted it, and apparently support it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3157427/posts?page=8#8

I found this info of Sveboda Party platform:

Svoboda’s platform is called “Our Own Authorities, Our Own Property, Our Own Dignity, on Our Own God-Given Land.” and includes the following points:

1. Ukraine—a presidential republi
c, head of state is the head of government
2. Lustration of state authority: publication of lists of all Soviet KGB agents that served or continue to serve in Ukraine, dismissal of such people as well as members of the former Communist Party of the Soviet Union from state leadership positions, replace them with graduates of the Ukrainian universities
3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”
4. Only those born in Ukraine can become Ukrainian citizens, with the exceptions for those who have lived in Ukraine for more than 15 years, know the Ukrainian language, culture and Ukrainian Constitution
5. Renunciation[nb 2] of the 2010 Kharkiv agreements
6. Impeachment of President Viktor Yanukovych
7. Ban on abortion, except in cases of medical necessity, or rape; and imprisonment from three to seven years for those who violate this ban
8. Criminalization of public promotion of abortions or calls for abortions (by introducing a fine for doing so)
9. The right to keep and bear arms
10. Occupied Khmelnytskyi Regional Council, January 2014
11. Cancelling taxes on Ukrainian language products — films, music and literature — and instead imposing taxes on non-Ukrainian language products. The proceeds obtained this way will be channeled into developing Ukrainian language products
12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land
13. Energy independence for Ukraine
14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry
15. Ban on the import of the food products that are also produced inside Ukraine and import only exotic food that is not domestically grown
16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates
17. Proportional representation on executive bodies of ethnic Ukrainians, on the one hand, and national minorities, on the other
18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children
19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions
20. Ordained persons should have no right to be elected to state authorities or local self-government authorities
21. Abolition of Crimean autonomy
22. Abolition of value added tax
23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use
24. The state is to implement a firm pro-family policy
25. Dismissal of employees of state structures who had been active in the Soviet apparatus before 1991
26. Decommunization of public space (monuments, names of streets and places)
27. Russia should apologize “for its communist crimes”
28. Ukraine is to leave the Commonwealth of Independent States “and other post-Soviet structures”
29. An explicit guarantee of accession to NATO within a set period of time
30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

[Tailgunner Joe]

I see that their platform calls for a ban on abortion and the right to bear arms.

When should we expect to hear the conservative hero Colonel Putin support an abortion ban and the right to bear arms in Russia?

Which part of the Svoboda platform exactly do you have a problem with?

[little jeremiah]

These ones especially. If you don't see the danger, you need to take off your blinders.

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land

History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry

Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates

What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

[little jeremiah]

The passports with “ethnic origin” or being deemed having “Ukrainophobia” will no doubt take away the right to bear arms.

They’re setting up their own little Stalinist type hell. If they implement these.

[Tailgunner Joe]

It sounds to me like they are only emulating the conservative Putin. After all Putin has nationalized major enterprises and controls Russian banking almost completely. When the richest man in Russia wanted to sell his oil company to the west, Putin exiled him to Siberia and nationalized the company.

Putin's adoring fans often say how much he loves his country. We certainly hear Putin label anyone who disagrees with him as a “Russophobe.” Could it be that Svoboda are pursuing similar policies to Putin because they also love their country too? Could it be they just don't want gays adopting Ukrainian children? Putin fans even say they like him and his policies so much, they would like him to be President of the USA. If Putin's ideas are good enough for the USA, then why not Ukraine?

Putin threatens to murder millions with nuclear missile strikes on the USA, why should Ukraine not have the same ability? Clearly they made a mistake when they gave up their nukes. Shouldn't they be more like Putin and threaten their neighbors with nuclear missile attacks like Putin does? Shouldn't everyone try to be as much like Putin as they can?

[little jeremiah]

I don’t know why you think I love Putin.

I do not.

I’m talking about Svoboda, the neo Nazis who idolice Bandera and Hitler.

Thanks for playing and ignoring the nastiness of Svoboda and its Pravi Sektor. It’s possile, believe it or not, to not like EITHER side. And point out honestly what’s going on in Ukraine without taking Putin’s side. I take no one’s side, but I do object to MY government siding with Neo Nazis for ulterior motives, including monetary. Note that Biden’s son just got a lucrative position in a big Ukraine gas company, the largest in the country.

They got rid of one set of criminal oligarchs for another set of criminal oligarchs. This time puppets of the 0bastard administration. An improvement over the old oligarchs? Count the dead and let’s see. But it’s not over yet.

[little jeremiah]

Putin threatens to murder millions with nuclear missile strikes on the USA, why should Ukraine not have the same ability?

Yeah, and why shouldn't Syria, Iran, Indonesia, Somalia and Sudan have nukes, while we're at it? Chavez? Let all dictators, fascists, communists and Moslems have nukes! We have them, Russia has them, let's let every two bit dictator madman have them! It's only fair! Party time!

[Tailgunner Joe]

Right sector are not nazis, they are patriots. Yes I support them proudly. Right sector and svoboda are two separate things. You don't seem to be aware of the difference between them, and you accept Russian lies uncritically. I don't. I don't believe one word the dirty Russian scum have to say. American patriots should help Ukrainian patriots annihilate the Russian traitors who promote racist ethnic separatism in Ukraine. Ukraine is not a nazi country, Russia is, and it must be destroyed.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Russia is helping Iran get nukes. The USA should help our allies who are threatened by Russia and Iran get nukes too.

[FreeReign]

Svoboda platform directly from the source

[little jeremiah]

They aren’t Nazis?

I’m sorry, you’ve really gone off the deep end.

[WildSnail]

LJ, your analysis and research skills and logical thinking serve you well on the eligibility threads. Use them on these topics, as well. Many of your ideas are coming directly from Russian state-run media.

First of all, you are entirely too obsessed with the supposed Nazis running Ukraine. It seems like you think that everything Ukraine does is bad, because it's all controlled by Nazis. Instead, you need to consider what the government and the people are doing without looking at what political party they belong to, but whether or not their actions are supportive of the country and it's people.

Have you even read through the Svoboda platform linked in #15? I'd like to see a Republican platform as conservative (in our sense) as most of that document. If I'm counting correctly, there are 211 items in the platform. You've picked out seven you object to. It that's all you can find, you need to reconsider your position. But let me address the seven you highlighted:

3. Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

A useful umbrella term to imprison and maybe execute (as said should happen by members of Svoboda already) all political enemies.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this item is, but leaping to the conclusion that it's for imprisonment and execution is highly questionable. But I'll let you have that one.

12. Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land

History has shown what happens when business and land are no longer privately owned, but owned by the government. These freaks hate communism? They're proposing communism!!! Are they insane?

If you actually read the platform, you would notice that this is in the section for getting rid of corruption and control by the oligarchs. And it's not a complete ban on private property. They want to require 30% government control of national finances. i.e. establish a national bank. There is no restriction on private bank ownership. There is also no restriction on property ownership. In fact, other items talk about requiring that condominium owners be allowed to own a proportional share of the land and building, not just their apartment. There are low cost, no interest, and free housing proposals. It sounds to me like they're trying to increase private ownership.

14. The development of competitive industries, particularly food processing and aircraft engineering, shipbuilding, machine-tool construction, machine manufacturing, the military industrial complex and the aerospace industry

Would these be among the ones nationalized, I would assume so.

Here, they are trying to encourage local production and improve the national economy. The only things nationalized are the enterprises (not entire industries) that make the oligarchs rich and violate laws. I didn't see anything at all in the platform that says the state needs to own and control these things. They even propose low or no-interest loans to small and medium business to help them compete and grow.

16. The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates

What does "ethnic origin" mean, precisely? "Russian" and "Jewish"? I assume so it's easier to know who to send to the camps or killing fields and who to starve to death.

I'll have to double-check with my wife, but I believe this is pretty much a non-issue for the vast majority of Ukrainians. It's kind of a "it's always been done this way" until fairly recently. But I'll leave the question open for now.

18. Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children 19. Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Does "non-Ukrainians" mean ethnic Russians living in Ukraine? I think it does, maybe Jews and other "creatures".

If you would actually read the document, you wouldn't jump to such asinine conclusions. Ukraine's population desperately needs to grow. They're trying to keep Ukrainian kids in their home country. They also have quite a few proposals to encourage Ukrainians to stay in Ukraine, and to encourage those who moved to other countries to return. And they're giving preferential treatment to Ukrainian citizens in their universities. Is there something wrong with that? Try taking away in-state tuition preferences in the U.S. and you'll have a revolution on your hands.

Speaking of population building, their platform calls for banning almost all abortions. You're for that, aren't you?

23. Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Hmm, owned by the government but "given" to farmers? Sounds like giving other peoples' land to political favorites. Also sounds like setting up the country for starving the "non-Ukrainians" or those with "Ukraine-phobia". Nationalizing Ukrainian farmland worked out so well under Stalin.....These people are madmen. Those who control the food, decide who eats and who does not.

Again, please read the document. It doesn't say what you claim at all. Basically, they're saying that land ownership needs to be allowed to pass to your children. And that land that is being abused (by oligarchs, criminals, etc.) or not being used for it's intended purpose can be confiscated by the government. It would then be either public land, or sold to someone who would take care of it properly. Sounds like "land management" to me, and not as intrusive as BLM or EPA.

30. Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry

Just what the world needs. Nukes in the hands of the Svoboda and the Pravi Sektor.

Again, you're confusing an alleged Nazi conspiracy with legitimate national security goals. Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for agreements that have been broken by everybody except them. They had nukes and gave them up! Considering their neighborhood, I don't blame them.

Now I know a party platform doesn't guarantee anything (see the Republican platform vs how many Republican representatives actually vote) but it is a pretty good indication of how the party actually wants things to be.

Yes, there are some things I don't agree with in Svoboda and Pravi Sektor, and other groups. But if you stop looking at them with nothing but hate, you will find a lot of good things there.

[dfwgator]

Basically what they are proposing is no different than what Lukashenko has in Belarus.