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To: The_Reader_David
He thus misses the libertarian argument against “same sex marriage”, to wit, that it represents an arrogation of power to the state — the state has never heretofore defined marriage, only regulated it — nor for that matter did the Church, either East or West, only regulated and blessed it — the definition, like the institution, was (and is for those of us who do not recognize the state’s purported authority to redefine the nature of non-state institutions) something that existed from time immemorial, prior to any state or any religion.

There isn't a libertarian argument against homosexuals marrying, the libertarian position is gay equality, including in marriage, the military, adoption,etc.

The state and religions, and tribes have always defined marriage, you just didn't notice it, but if you showed up in 1790 and wanted your marriage recognized by the Army, or for a marriage license, you and your boyfriend wouldn't make the cut, nor in ancient Rome, or Greece, or when the Catholic church made marriage law.

6 posted on 05/19/2014 9:27:07 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: ansel12
No, the fact that until this latest enthusiasm, marriage as an institution (as distinct from how it is registered or recognized by the state or registered, recognized or blessed by a religion) has looked very much the same across cultures, religions and nations, shows that its registration, regulation and/or blessing by other social institution does not define and is not constitutive of marriage qua marriage.

The fact that a "marriage" between "Adam and Steve" would not have been recognized by the any of the several states in 1790 or the Latin Church (or for that matter the Orthodox Church) or the Roman Empire, does not mean that those institutions defined marriage, but that they recognized what marriage is, rather than arrogating to themselves the purported authority to redefine it. A married couple arriving in the Roman Empire from the Persian Empire or the lands of the Scythians would be understood to be married, even though neither the Roman civil authorities or, in latter times, the Orthodox Church, had married them. A couple married by the Church (East or West) travelling along the silk road to China would have been understood to be married by all the various cultures, religions and societies they met.

The notion that regulation or registration by the state makes something into a state institution, defined by the state, able to be modified by the state, is a profoundly statist notion, and as such anti-libertarian.

7 posted on 05/19/2014 11:06:52 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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