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To: Ivan Mazepa; dangus; dfwgator; caww; tcrlaf; little jeremiah; kiryandil

Ping for your comments.
I’m still trying to figure this all out. IIt’s a pretty confused mess, in my opinion.


4 posted on 05/14/2014 10:52:45 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD
It's intended to be to be chaotic....unfortunately.

Easier to understand when you determine the key players....

The people fighting on the ground, sadly, are the costs of those who are seeking control of Ukraine for it is a key country to Russia... and to the Eu/Nato/US.... Each with their own agenda for Dominance.

While Eu/Nato/US continued it's push for expansion of the Eu “empire” so to speak....snatching up former Russian Baltic countries on Putins border...Putin didn't say much...but his ‘red line’ was Ukraine...they crossed it in spite of his warnings....as with their attempts at Georgia...and they knew by doing so there would be a response.

Crimea was going to be the linchpin for the EU/Nato push and a key point of concentration..... Putin new this and why he focused there and did what we know now....remarkably without a shot fired.....though it appears more than enough citizens were eager to return to the Russian sphere, where they not long ago were a part of.

14 posted on 05/14/2014 11:06:07 AM PDT by caww
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To: FBD
It's intended to be to be chaotic....unfortunately.

Easier to understand when you determine the key players....

The people fighting on the ground, sadly, are the costs of those who are seeking control of Ukraine for it is a key country to Russia... and to the Eu/Nato/US.... Each with their own agenda for Dominance.

While Eu/Nato/US continued it's push for expansion of the Eu “empire” so to speak....snatching up former Russian Baltic countries on Putins border...Putin didn't say much...but his ‘red line’ was Ukraine...they crossed it in spite of his warnings....as with their attempts at Georgia...and they knew by doing so there would be a response.

Crimea was going to be the linchpin for the EU/Nato push and a key point of concentration..... Putin new this and why he focused there and did what we know now....remarkably without a shot fired.....though it appears more than enough citizens were eager to return to the Russian sphere, where they not long ago were a part of.

15 posted on 05/14/2014 11:06:08 AM PDT by caww
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To: FBD

The problem that Kiev has with inviting the separatist “leaders” is nobody heard of them, they have no authority, they haven’t been elected, they’re unknown even among the Donbas masses. How do they represent Donbas? They found some AKs, stormed some buildings, kidnapped some hostages and are now leaders? - as one line of thinking goes.

Also hampering negotiating is the background of these people and the methods they’re using. You’re asking Ukrainian government to sit down with Peoples Governor Pavel Gubarev, a certified Russian Nazi (and that’s not an exaggeration that Putin cheerleaders throw around freely at Ukrainians, this guy is a Nazi) or commander Strelkov, a Russian FSB officer who may or may not be acting on behalf of Russia (he says he’s not) or another “leader” Denis Pushilin, whose only accomplishment in life is that he helped operating a Ponzi scheme (MMM) Half of these guys have criminal pasts, and Ukraine is to sit down with them? There are horror stories coming out of the occupied territories, people gone missing, robbed, etc. but Ukraine is to legitimize them by sitting down with them at the same table.

Whatever business and political leaders Donbas does have, separatists are not working with them. The big one - Akhmetov said that he wants Donbas in Ukraine, that should’ve solved it, but no, the separatists are still there. Kiev’s problem is there’s nobody to sit down with.


78 posted on 05/15/2014 5:53:02 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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