Posted on 05/14/2014 10:36:30 AM PDT by FBD
Talks to end the crisis in Ukraine have begun in Kiev, brokered by international monitors, but pro-Russian rebels are not represented.
Ukraine's interim leaders and other public figures are at the talks, which are part of an OSCE roadmap plan.
The "national unity round table" was meant to be as inclusive as possible.
The interim government has said the annexation of Crimea by Russia this year cost Ukraine at least 1tn hryvnya (£49.3bn; $83bn; 60.5bn euros).
A day earlier, Ukraine's military suffered its heaviest losses to the rebels so far in the fighting in the east, where rebels control a number of towns.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
Nobody’s misleading anyone...if you follow the thread you will see that there was no confirmation on this, and questioning about...as well conversation about seeking further verification....so don’t be so quick to jump just because you want to.
Further...did you verify and confirm your source? Or was this also propaganda?
Presumably you are responding to my statement about the Ukrainian people not being “Nazis.” Your sick distortions and dishonesty will lead you to hell, I assure you.
Oh, I forgot to comment on this. She's running third with 8.8 percent. The guy in second is only slightly ahead. Poroshenko is massively leading, running as a moderate and a pro-westerner, also wanting to "dialogue" with Russia. He might be secretly in Russia's pocket though. He has ties with people involved in keeping Ukraine under Russia's energy stranglehold. But, we shall see.
Also employed was the wonder of the modern age, Google, searching for "дмитрий дмитриев владивосток". It found:
- that webpage I referenced previously,
- whole lot more videos of blogger Dmitriev ranting against Ukraine in the same manner as the "defector"
- an open letter from 2013 to the Russian president complaining against harassment he's facing, had his picture and he too was a former cop from Vladivostok.
- a 2005 video of a Russian nazi, it's a bit grainy and he's younger and fatter, but you could recognize him. Same name and Vladivostok location.
Then there is this....”Mutiny of 1500 Ukrainian soldiers in Dnepropetrovsk refuse to take part in military operation in SE Ukraine”.....
Then there is this....”Mutiny of 1500 Ukrainian soldiers in Dnepropetrovsk refuse to take part in military operation in SE Ukraine”.....
“You should probably not rely on photos provided by Russian media.”
I don’t rely on them, anymore then I rely on the NY Slimes. The media on both sides of this conflict are agenda driven. But the picture is real, and I watched the videos of Ukrainian soldiers turning around, after first surrendering their weapons to the separatists. Not everyone on either side is either a “terrorist” or a “fascist”. What a bunch of hyperbole. Many are just ordinary citizens, caught up in the crossfire of competing outside interests.
There’s clearly enough propaganda going around on both sides, and the *truth* , if there ever was any, has long been lost in the fog of this civil war.
Taking a look at our own civil war, was it really, a cut and dried issue of the north opposing slavery vs ALL the southerners supporting slavery? And was it really about slavery, or was it about northerners imposing tariffs on southern ports? What effect did Lincoln have on southerners by sending troops marching to fort Sumter? Were there foreign influences on both sides of the conflict? There sure was. Did troops on both sides commit war crimes? Did they burn innocent people out if their homes? They sure did.
What about the press, what happened to them? Lincoln had his generals throw hundreds of newspaper editors in the north, in jail, and closed down their papers, for criticism of the war. Have the pro-Russians intimidated the media? They sure have. And so has the Kiev bunch.
Finally, I'd ask you all to consider what would happen, if one of our own states were to secede, if our country went into economic collapse?
What if a civil war started over a secession? Would there be some bad actors in both sides of the secession? There sure would be, and you might even see the white Aryan nation fighting for secession right along with some tea party people, even if they didn't agree with each other over goals or methods, or even the end results.
You might just get to see some real live communists and fascists up close and personal, if we had a civil war.
-Would our troops fire on American citizens in a civil war?
Based on Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State, and the Cliven Bundy ranch standoff; they might. And some troops would probably defect, (oathkeepers) before firing on Americans.
Would there be outside countries trying to influence any future civil war in our own country? - We all know that there would be.
This mess in Ukraine, is exactly that, and none of us know what the outcome will be, and really, how much we hear in both sides is really the truth, and how much is just turd polishing propaganda.
The best we can do, probably, is learn from this debacle, and work to keep it from ever happening here, in the United States.
Peace.
Terminated?
By whom?
When this thing is done, there’s probably gonna be a war crimes tribunal. Hopefully, both sides will be prosecuted, because both sides have psychotic war criminals in their midst.
Can’t tell without additional research. At quick glance, the source is suspect and the story is not being carried by the bigger media sites. It might end up on stopfake.org with the other Russian BS stories, or might be proven true, we’ll see.
This is itself the result of the demoralization caused by Russian disinformation and active measures against the conservative movement. This is very similar to the goobers in the cold war who legitimized Communist behavior by opposing our attempts to take a strategic advantage over them, saying it would cause a nuclear war. No one is arguing the Ukrainians are "complete" angels, and it is irrelevant. Ukraine should have the freedom to work out their own problems without another country using its intelligence service and military to defraud them of their freedoms and murder their people. The problem isn't that the "truth" is hidden by the fog. The problem is your gullibility and ignorance of what the enemy is that we're facing.
Thanks for your comments. I tend to fear the reason the establishment (including National Review) is so hate-filled towards the separatists is precisely because they fear separatist movements catching on across Europe and possibly America. For instance, immediately after Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine, Florence voted to secede from Italy!
Why one would have problem with Russian BS propaganda is obvious, but what do you object to on the Ukrainian side? Calling those they don’t agree with “terrorists”? We’ll, people are kidnapped, then found dead, stores are looted. If the shoe fits...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA1siUNjN8I
As has been said.."one may not share his views but can not dismiss his true highest level of professionalism and aptitude, especially so in comparison to any of his his opponents...
"Chilcote knows he's up against a statesman who has a firm grasp on the situation in Ukraine and players in the field, from Russia's perspective. Lavrov articultates his point well and easy to understand him....showing incredable patience with Chilcote who asks a question, then interrupts mid way, claiming he wants to ask a new question or argue a new point. ......The MSM has basically blocked this interview because informed people will understand, as was said.
I chose to hear what he has to say and how he delivers it...I don't know anyone in the Obama administration who could deliver their stance as this man does, (unfortunately)...but it gives you an idea what Kerry and others are up against in communication skills.
To me it was worth the listen..and about 40 or so minutes long...which gave me opportunity to see if his stance would change or falter over time as so many do. Each can make their own determination about what Lavrov has to say. I figure best to hear from the horses mouth...and Lavrov speaks for Putin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA1siUNjN8I
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