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To: Rashputin

” I know it’s not a popular opinion, but the “government” in Kiev admitted over the past few weeks that numerous armories had been taken over in the Eastern Ukraine.”

I have thought this same thing, but I have also seen pics of RPG30s in Ukraine which are exclusively 2013 Russian military grade.

But, from an investigative point, this is not conclusive.

Now as to terrorism, taking hostages, beating and torturing hostages ( see Vice News reporter’s account who was held hostage for 2 or 3 days in Slovyansk ), making Ukrainian speaking people ‘register’ at the ‘mayor’s’ office, and killing Ukrainian soldiers; I would have to put this group in the terrorist category.

But one’s terrorists is another’s freedom fighters they say.


80 posted on 05/02/2014 11:01:50 PM PDT by More Objective than Subjective
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To: More Objective than Subjective
I wouldn't base much on what sort of equipment is used since so much modern stuff is or was produced right in Eastern Ukraine for export to Russia. Everything but the chips for some of the most advanced Russian stuff can be made in Ukraine, or so I'm told by a guy who once lived in that part of the country.

As for the rest, yeah, they're terrorists by that definition just like the crowd in Kiev, I don't doubt that a bit and see no reason to believe they have any corner on the market for that sort of stuff.

Dig through the videos that are available, they're not all from "Putinistas", far from it. The ones from Eastern Ukraine in where people formed lines and beat police forced to run the gauntlet? Seen the ones with civilians building barricades in the streets of Andriivka and confronting the troops? The ones from Odessa with the police beating people already obviously incapable of resisting? People in Odessa beating those who jumped to avoid the fire and not far away others trying to help people escape the fire? Some Odessa police escorting people from the burning building to protect them from the crowd while not far away police are ignoring people shooting at the building?.There are no clean hands in this and damn few trying to keep it from getting worse.

The crowd who took over with mob at their back in Kiev let the genie out of the bottle and no one has to do anything to keep it going now.

I hear through a friend with family who live near Kiev that their friends in the East are convinced the Kiev crowd will deport people in the East that they classify as "ethnic Russians". That would even include people born in Ukraine since it became independent but who had a parent who was born in Russia.

That may not be true, it probably isn't true (or wasn't as when the current crowd in Kiev took over), but it's the position the Right Sector and a lot of other Nationalist groups take. The people in the East, though, haven't heard a peep out of Kiev denying it nor have they seen current Kiev "government" crack down on Nationalist groups who espouse that goal.

So, in a chaotic situation they believe it and the people in Kiev haven't done a thing to change their view, they just issued edicts and demands while yelling for foreign troops to come help them. No matter what someone can say in defense of the "government" in Kiev, they sure can't defend them by pointing to how smart or in touch with reality they are.

That's the root cause of the country now falling apart. The people in Kiev who were desperate to seize power instead of waiting on elections but who had no idea of how to run the balancing act that's been going on ever since the country was formed when the USSR broke up.

106 posted on 05/03/2014 1:01:48 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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