Ukraine says Russian 'saboteurs' attempted to cross border

Kyiv Post ^ | Fri May 2, 2014 10:23am EDT | Reuters

[WhiskeyX]

(Reuters) - Ukraine's acting president, Oleksander Turchinov, said on Friday Ukrainian border troops had rebuffed attempts by Russian "armed saboteurs" to cross into Ukraine overnight.

[DannyTN]

Huh....Ukraine can protect their border.

Why can’t we protect ours?

[2ndDivisionVet]

This is essentially a Soviet civil war, or am I wrong?

[meatloaf]

Plain and simple it’s Russians invading Ukraine.

[lodi90]

Plain and simple it’s Russians invading Ukraine.

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[WhiskeyX]

“This is essentially a Soviet civil war, or am I wrong?”

Wrong. According to the Soviet Union, the Soviet Socialist Republic of the Ukraine was a separate nation seated as a sovereign member of the United Nations like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United States of America, Brazil, and Poland.

[tcrlaf]

It is a civil war. Today’s events have proven that beyond any doubt.

[2ndDivisionVet]

I was an intelligence analyst back then. That was a figleaf in their drive to get each and every SSR a separate membership in the United Nations to up their voting bloc, just as if we were to try and get Iowa, Florida and Texas in as countries.

[WhiskeyX]

“That was a figleaf in their drive to get each and every SSR a separate membership in the United Nations to up their voting bloc, just as if we were to try and get Iowa, Florida and Texas in as countries.”

I know exactly what you are talking about, because we had occasion to meet with the Soviet Ukrainian U.N diplomats and ask questions about that situation at the university’s Model United Nations sessions during the Cold War. The Ukrainian diplomats pointed to the role of the independent Ukrainian Bolshevists in establishing the USSR. They used the strained analogy of Great Britain having multiple member states in the United Nations who were all part of the British Commonwealth.

Using the states of the United States as an example is a false analogy. A civil war is by definition: “In General, any internal armed conflict between persons of same country (Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th); An armed struggle between opposing and contending forces of the same nation for the control of the government (Ballantine’s Law Dictionary, 3rd).

In the case of the present conflict in the Ukraine, the armed conflict is between persons of the Russian Federation invading and inciting ethnic Russians having Ukrainian and/or Russian citizenship to engage in an armed conflict with Ukrainian persons within Ukrainian territories. The Ukraine is a completely separate and sovereign nation going on some 23 years now. Prior to the dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was accorded diplomatic recognition as a sovereign nation within a federal union, whether or not the international diplomatic recognition served as a “figleaf” with respect to actual political control, various Ukrainian republics emerged from the dissolution of the Russian Empire to become separate republics joining as founding member republics of the larger Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). After the dissolution of the USSR, the Ukraine became an independent republic once again, so citizens of the Russian Federation are and have been foreign citizens with respect to the Ukraine for more than two decades. As the legal dictionaries define a civil war, an armed conflict between a foreign person and a Ukrainian person does not meet the definition of a civil war.

Likewise in the case of Ukrainian persons engaging in an armed conflict with other Ukrainian persons for foreign control of the Ukrainian government when they do so under the incitement, command, control, funding, arming, training, supply, and direct military combat support of foreign persons and foreign military forces seeking to gain control of Ukrainian governments, the conflict is a foreign invasion with the aid and support of traitors or Quislings.

In the American Civil War or War of the Rebellion, the insurrectionists of the Confederate States of America were not recruited to the rebellion by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and its covert military forces exercising command and control of the armed conflict using American rebels. Although the British were instigating the war for its benefit, Britain did not invade the United States and then exercise command and control of the rebellion to annex the U.S. States to the British. In the present case of the Ukraine, the Russian Federation is a nation foreign to the Ukraine who has invaded the Ukraine and annexed Ukrainian territories while using disloyal Ukrainian persons to support the foreign invasion and conquest. So, Russia’s invasion and conquest of local Ukrainian governments does not fulfill the definition of a civil war regardless of the participation of Ukrainian persons. So, the analogy to the U.S. states and the persons engaged in the armed conflict simply fails by definition.