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Sheriff: Feds strategize for 'raid' on ranch [Sheriff Mack]
WND ^
| April 14, 2014
Posted on 04/14/2014 4:29:29 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: MarMema
Get rid of Cliven Bundy’s name and you’ve got a great PR piece. Or, better, find real ranchers who paid the fees, stayed within the law and were driven out of business and use their name/names.
It isn’t that I believe the government to be in the right. They’re against logging, ranching, recreational activities and have become the tool of the Watermelons. Clive Bundy’s just the wrong case and the wrong guy to hang our hat on.
We need a Rosa Parks-type figure. Do you even know of Bundy’s got the million dollars set aside in escrow? If you cannot get regular posters at FR to back this, then how will you get the mushy middle?
The fact is that the facts and the law are against Bundy. The more that comes out on him the kookier he’ll seem to the general public, because he is basing his argument on kook ideas.
441
posted on
04/15/2014 4:38:46 AM PDT
by
1010RD
(First, Do No Harm)
To: MarMema
In your comparison you put together too kooks. I want our guy to not be a kook. Bundy’s legal theories are hokum. Where are the other ranchers? Find a good one, a family that’s paid and still been abused. That works.
442
posted on
04/15/2014 4:40:26 AM PDT
by
1010RD
(First, Do No Harm)
To: rolling_stone
What you’re mixing up is the right cause, but the wrong hero. Does BLM or EPA or COE conspire with Watermelons to harm and alter the law. The Federal Land Policy and Management Act is being twisted out of shape. That doesn’t mean that Bundy’s cause is just or his case solid.
Other ranchers with similar theories have lost again and again in court. Bundy will lose and all the energy spent on him will be in vain. It’s great that the BLM armed response backed down. This will simmer and then the BLM will just win in court, lien his assets which will be allowed and directed by a court of law, and Bundy will be forced to pay at any sale or from his accounts in banks.
Let’s not get confused. We’re right, government is abusing. Cliven Bundy, though, is not the right hero for our cause.
443
posted on
04/15/2014 4:47:46 AM PDT
by
1010RD
(First, Do No Harm)
To: umgud
I don’t think they care about backlash. The left rule the country, or so they think, and we are nothing but their subjects.
These people wouldn’t mind killing those who stand in their way. And they wouldn’t mind losing a few BLM “pawns” if it means getting what they want.
444
posted on
04/15/2014 4:52:12 AM PDT
by
Yorlik803
( Church/Caboose in 2016)
To: editor-surveyor
"You dislike Christian sites, huh!"Oh I get it! Kinda like if I don't like Obama then I am a racist?
Group thought, huh!
445
posted on
04/15/2014 4:59:53 AM PDT
by
vg0va3
To: vg0va3
446
posted on
04/15/2014 5:00:32 AM PDT
by
bert
((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
To: chulaivn66; MarMema
LOL! It's amazing how many Horatios at the bridge have stepped to the fore to show how "committed" they are to "level-headedness" and how against "kooks" they are.
And how important the tortoiseForts are, and The Boundary Peak dock-Yards are, and The Yellow-Back Gear Queer Waterway* is.
*The Yellow-Back Gear Queer Waterway, a navigable Inland Waterway, was hastily constructed by the US Army Corpse of Engineers at the behest of President-Princess Pinocchio, in order to expedite the transfer of fresh Wagyu steaks to the White Hut's gourmet kitchens, and Arsenals.
447
posted on
04/15/2014 6:09:08 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: Smokin' Joe
What McVeigh was convicted of doing was the worst possible thing at the worst possible time. Oddly, it happened at the Best Possible Time for the Fedcoats.
Of course, afterwards, it was discovered the compound where McVeigh was hanging out was nothing but a big FBI snitch operation.
The Fedcoats knew.
448
posted on
04/15/2014 6:16:06 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: 1010RD
We have to be wise like the Civil Rights Movement of the 50s and 60s. They picked their battles by carefully finding the right victim. Bundys not that.
While your concern for picking the right battle are valid, remember that "the perfect is the enemy of the good".
There will never be a perfect scenario.... with one exception. Nearly always you will dance with the one who brung you.
The single exception? There's a great exchange from James Clavell's Shogun that illustrates it:
"There are no mitigating circumstances when it comes to treason against one's sovereign lord."
"Unless you win."
That's the only exception.
To: volunbeer; dragnet2
Gunning down someone removing Bundys cattle from the range per the orders of a court that deliberated on his case would be no more righteous than blowing up the Federal building in Oklahoma City. McVeigh believed he was striking a blow for freedom, but I believe most of us would agree his actions changed nothing. I dont believe anyone responsible for the incident that sparked him was even present. His actions did not convince others to begin a revolution against the government. In fact, I would even argue his actions promoted a backlash against some of the sentiment on this thread. The government was up to its eyeballs in Oklahoma City. That's probably one of the reasons they put down McVeigh so quickly. Usually, it takes 20 years plus to kill someone on death row these days.
The "compound" was an FBI operation.
450
posted on
04/15/2014 6:22:10 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: MarMema
I have no doubt we have liberals supporting the liberal/communist cause. He is one of them.
451
posted on
04/15/2014 6:25:10 AM PDT
by
CodeToad
(Arm Up! They Are!)
To: 1010RD; dragnet2
Oh, great - the kook is up for the morning.
Anybody too stupid to move out of Deep Blue Territory is NOT a good source of advice on this matter.
452
posted on
04/15/2014 6:26:19 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: 1010RD; MarMema
Ummm - listen, kook.
The Fedcoats were conspiring against Hage, just as they conspired against Bundy, and CONTINUE to conspire against Bundy.
453
posted on
04/15/2014 6:30:12 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: CodeToad
We have quite the enthusiastic bunch of “Bundy is a kook deadbeat” types on FR these days, eh?
454
posted on
04/15/2014 6:31:34 AM PDT
by
kiryandil
(turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
To: kiryandil
You are correct, and its not just on FR, go visit other gun talk forums. They had marching orders to divide the peasants and to create dissent.
To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Other than human shields, the best defense for the Bundys is to get the identities of the agents involved, and put them on the Internet as fugitive criminals, who along with their families will never be able to live in America without being hounded for their crimes.
Reprisals are widely known to be an unpleasant fact of civil insurgencies.
To: wastedyears
So, in your view, there are no limits on a soldier following orders?
457
posted on
04/15/2014 6:50:29 AM PDT
by
Cen-Tejas
(it's the debt bomb stupid!)
To: blueplum
I sure hope, that along with the folks gathering to protect Bundys ranch, that there is also a mighty gathering of some high-powered lawyers willing to donate some time to this crisis, because that is what the situation needs more than anything else right now, today. Briefs, not bullets.
If the goal is for the totalitarian State to take resistance seriously, briefs are toothless.
theres got to be something we can do besides escallate.
Too late, on both sides. This is a long time brewing, and I don't just mean the Bundy situation.
Theres got to be a federal judge somewhere who can issue some stays or something.
And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. P. Henry
To: 1010RD
"It is in vain to extenuate the matter."
Americans are angry enough for a fight.
They've been itching for one since Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Platitudes are not going to appease any longer. You refer to Sun Tzu? Then understand that early recognition that terrain is fatal is the key to surviving it.
The terrain is already fatal.
To: Robert Teesdale
I’m not sure “unpleasant” is how I would describe it. “Natural” might be more accurate.
The entire idea of the law is based on the idea of preventing blood feuds and vendettas through fair arbitration by someone more powerful than either side. However, if government does not fairly arbitrate, taking the side of a criminal or civil oppressor against the public, or even supporting them, the social contract has been broken, and the old rules come to the fore.
At least twice now, at Waco and Ruby Ridge, and truthfully much more than that, government has been seen by the public as tyrannical and oppressive, not unbiased, fair, or even concerned with legal recourse instead of massacre and brutality. And then, cynically vindicating those who carried out such abuses, and even promoting them for their offenses.
Even if some individuals, like Timothy McVeigh, respond in kind quickly to such acts, the public as a whole just watches and remembers, and while they are much slower to anger, the anger is there.
As with vigilante organizations, the public as a whole tries to remain non-violent until they are pushed to their limit. Arrogant tyrants in government always figure that they can arm enough of their government to put down the public; and more so, they figure they can purge their military and police of those who will not mindlessly oppress the public.
But this is a grave error on their part, because the military and the police are members of the public, and while some of them may be willing to turn their guns on civilians, there will always be many more who not only will not, but will turn their guns on those doing so.
When this happens, shortly thereafter, tyrannical politicians and bureaucrats find themselves hanging from light poles, often at the hands of those they thought were loyal to them. The public, as such, doesn’t even need to dirty its hands.
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