“Here is the most important issue in my view. Are we faithfully serving Christ? It is not our job to fear over what’s going on. This is not news to us. The Lord has told us in His Word that wars and rumors of wars will be with us. He revealed to us that until Christ returns, this world will be filled with sorrow and strife. Our promise, comfort, reassurance, and peace is with Christ, my friend. Not what’s unfolding in America or any place else, for that matter. Keep the faith and run the race. It rains and shines on both the believer as well as the unbeliever. We are secure in Christ.”
Good exhortation. Thanks.
“Although homosexuality was deemed a criminal act, I do not agree that it is Biblically supported as such. All sexual acts outside of traditional marriage are wrong. If two consenting adults engage in sexual intercourse outside of the a marriage relationship, that’s sin, but not punishable by law... Don’t presume to speak for God.”
I am not presuming to speak for God. I am trying to understand what God has already spoken and made readily available for us to hear. Here is my basis for arguing the Biblical standard. In the Old and New Testaments, the remedy for extramarital sex was marriage (with some exceptions). Under the Law of Moses, if the sex act involved a man with another man’s wife, it was treated with the death penalty for the man, and for the woman if evidence supported that it was consensual. But all homosexual acts were treated with the death penalty. The New Testament does extend grace to all, including homosexuals, but it also says that homosexual sex warrants a death penalty (along with other sins which many of us non-homosexuals are guilty of). Note that in both of the following passages it is clear that this moral code is for Gentiles as well as Jews.
Leviticus 18:22, 24, 25
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination...Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants.
Romans 1:27, 32
Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due... who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
“What do you mean, Lot failed to protect his own family? This is not true.”
It is true. He moved from living with Abraham to living in this wicked city voluntarily putting his family in danger.
Genesis 13:12, 13
Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched his tent toward Sodom. But the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord.
In Genesis 14 we learn that Lot and his family were taken captive due to his living in this wicked city, and they were rescued by Abraham.
Chapter 18 is where Abraham asked God to spare Sodom from destruction. God promised not to destroy it if He found 10 righteous people.
In 19:8 Lot offers the mob of homosexual rapists his two virgin daughters to have their way with. The idea that Lot could predict that these violent rapists would not endanger his daughters is folly. It is clear that his foolishness brought him into this city and put him and his family in danger so that God had to rescue him and them both through Abraham and through the angelic visitors. Lot’s wife disobeyed the angels and looked back at the city as they fled.
Genesis 19:26
But his wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
This event is something Jesus taught to remember as a pattern of responding to the wickedness that will precede His return in Luke 17:32.
Further in Genesis 19 we learn that Lot’s two daughters were disillusioned at having no children and got their father drunk and were both impregnated by him. The two children born out of this incest became the patriarchs of Moab and Ammon which were among the abominable nations that God destroyed when He brought Israel into the promised land.
Finally, we learn additional information from Peter’s comments on the story of Sodom:
2 Peter 2:6-9
and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment....
Here we see that the destruction of Sodom was intended by God to be a historical example of the consequences of this perversion. It is very clear that Lot had a godly motive in following along with Abraham, but Lot did not share in Abraham’s family blessings because of the destructive influence of Sodom.
Nations that accept and legalize homosexuality are doomed for destruction. Never in the history of mankind has the idea of homosexual marriage been accepted by society. The only possible outcome of this in our nation is judgment from God. This may take the form of military defeat, civil war, insurrections, financial collapse, outbreaks of disease, natural disasters, rampant violent crime, famine, and tyrannical oppression. But, like Lot, God is able to deliver the righteous from destruction.
“In the Old and New Testaments, the remedy for extramarital sex was marriage (with some exceptions).”
Marriage was not a remedy for extramarital sexual intercourse. Marriage between man and woman was created because, as you’ll recall in Genesis, Adam was incomplete without Eve. Also, the marriage model symbolizes our relationship with our Lord.
We are not living by the Old Testament covenant. Christ brought us the New Testament covenant. Although Leviticus reveals the nature of those types of sin, it does not indicate in the verse you sited that we are to imprison homosexuals.
“...those who practice such things are deserving of death...”
Note this carefully. For those who fail to turn to Christ concerning this-they are condemned. You’ll also note that they are condemned by God, not man. If you can show me in this passage that the Lord commands us to imprison homosexuals, I’ll agree, but I don’t see it. Furthermore, Christ stated that aside from sinning against the Holy Spirit, sin is sin.
Don’t misunderstand me. The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a abomination.
“...then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment....”
This is a key section. You’re speaking in terms of judgment in the here and now. I believe that in the 2 Peter passage, the Lord is referring to the Great White Throne judgment.
I do not hold to the hyper-Calvinist belief that God’s people will usher in His Kingdom. We all needed/need a Savior. How in the world are men, whom are by nature sinners, capable of preparing this world for Christs return.
Revelation is clear to me that Jesus will return as King and Judge, and not as a lamb to be slain, at the Second Coming. We, as Christians, are to be light and salt, and to faithfully serve the Lord. We were not appointed to be righteous judges. We are to exercise discernment, and judge whether or not we are living by His will, but we have not been granted the authority to condemn anyone to damnation.
Is America, and can America be judged by God for sins against humanity and especially Christ? I believe so.
If you’ll recall, our initial dialog started with you statement:
“God is going to hold all of us to account for our tolerance, apathy and inaction.”
As I pointed out previously, that’s a sweeping and self-righteous statement. You and I are in agreement on most of these issues, unlearner. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent. Also, excuse me for the lengthy reply.