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To: wideawake

I agree that the Opium Wars are not as fully examples of evil western aggression as widely believed.

In my remarks to which you replied, I was, however, not referring to China as such. I was referring to the Philippines, East Indies, Malaysia, Indochina, etc. All of which had (mostly) been conquered by European (or American) countries within the previous 50 to 100 years.

I also think you are glossing over the unequal treaties the Chinese were forced to sign with western powers when they were unable to defend themselves.

I have no particular desire to pretty up the appalling Japanese record in WWII. I was pointing out that if one looks simply at imperial expansion as such, the Japanese were doing much as the white nations had done in the previous century, except that they were attacking white people instead of the native states.

If it’s okay for France to conquer IndoChina, it’s difficult for me to see why it’s inherently unacceptable for the Japanese to take it away from the French.

The original conquest of these areas by the colonial powers also included a lot of mostly unrecorded atrocities.


110 posted on 03/31/2014 2:01:31 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
If it’s okay for France to conquer IndoChina, it’s difficult for me to see why it’s inherently unacceptable for the Japanese to take it away from the French.

Again, as with the British presence in China, French Indochina was not a story of the French simply invading the country, putting people to the sword, and establishing a dictatorial rule.

The Vietnamese, Khmer and Chamese peoples were all fighting back and forth to establish hegemony over the Mekond Delta.

French missionaries came to spread the Christian faith peacefully.

The Vietnamese kingdom that eventually took over the Delta had a good relationship with the missionaries and when there was a coup by the anti-Christian Tay Son, the Vietnamese throne asked the missionaries if the French could help them defeat their enemies.

The French intervened, and as a result got trade treaties and military outposts. When the Nguyen succeeded in pacifying the country with French help, they then turned on the French and tried to expel them.

The Khmer also asked the French to make them a French protectorate to defend them from the Vietnamese.

After two short battles with little loss of life, the Nguyen ceded territory to the new French protectorate and French Indochina was born.

The French had a constructive relationship with the peoples of the Mekong Delta for 250 years before one angry king tried to steal their stuff and expel them, and he paid a price.

Very different from what Japan did.

116 posted on 03/31/2014 2:18:51 PM PDT by wideawake
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