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To: FBD; wetphoenix; caww
Russia took ALL of Ukrainian crops, and intentionally starved 7-10 million Ukrainian people. More recently, they took their natural gas, and now they're taking their land and shipping ports.

Sorry we've already been through this on post 12 of this very thread.

If ya want to assign blame for the Holodomor it goes to Stalin, Soviet Communism, and Western MSM, so you go after Georgia, Soviet Communists or the New York Times not Russians, Putin or Russian media, who had nothing to do with it.

Additionally Russia has loads of gas herself and doesn't take, or need Ukraine gas while Ukraine has repeatedly accepted Russian gas and reneged on payment after selling the gas at whopping profits. Ukraine still owes Russia while raking in hundreds of millions from the West.

Finally Russia has a legal lease on the Ukrainian port, and the Crimean are more legal in leaving Maidan, than Maidan was in leaving Yanukovych.

75 posted on 04/02/2014 7:02:25 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html

The Russian government is a bunch of damn thieves and liars. They broke their port leases with Ukraine, after they stole the ports.

http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html
Russia refuses to acknowledge the genocide that was committed in Ukraine. Russia =Soviet Soviet=Russia, and Soviets rule was from Moscow.

In November 2006, the Ukrainian parliament passed a bill proclaiming the Holodomor a genocide and making Holodomor denial “unlawful.” An escalation of rhetoric followed; a 2007 statement by the Russian Foreign Ministry accused “certain political circles” in Ukraine of insulting the memory of non-Ukrainian famine victims. Since then, the pro-government Russian press has published dozens of articles assailing Ukraine’s stance on the Holodomor as an insidious anti-Russian ploy.

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/russias-barbaric-denial-on-holodomor/

76 posted on 04/02/2014 9:44:31 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot

http://www.holodomorct.org/accounts.html

“Although the Russian government continues to call Ukraine’s depiction of the famine a “one-sided falsification of history,” it is recognized as genocide by approximately two dozen nations, and is now the focus of considerable international research and documentation.”

.


77 posted on 04/02/2014 9:52:44 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot
To buttress my point that the Soviet Union first depleted Ukrainian gas reserves:

http://csis.org/blog/russia%E2%80%99s-gas-clash-ukraine-geopolitics-or-just-money

“The battle of the oligarchs behind the gas dispute.

FTA- “The Financial Times’ Jerome Guillet and John Evans point out that while Russia has the gas supplies, most of Russia’s export pipelines and storage capacity were built by the Soviet Union in Ukraine. Ukraine relies on gas from Russia to fuel its heavy industry as it has depleted most of its own reserves.

The authors argue that Gazprom has long understood that Ukraine would never pay for official gas deliveries; as a result, complicated, opaque deals were made at high political and business levels.”

.

78 posted on 04/02/2014 10:05:59 AM PDT by FBD
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To: Navy Patriot

Some cannot see further than the Stalin years...certainly Russia today is a far cry from that time. Though no doubt residual affects remain reminding those who knew that era all to well.

There’s been much debate for years over the “starvation” issue.....from my understanding it was a many varied issue...from those who resisted Stalins agenda, thereby positioning themselves for starvation...to the varied groups at that time who are simply thugs...and still are today.

Ukraine seems to always be more a lawless nation than anything else. And they continue to “keep” the people in Gov. office who hurt their nation. Just as we see now happening.

I don’t have too much hope for Ukraine overall.....the EU is NOT the way to go.....they will never invest in the country, as we see now. They will use Ukraine at best....they have to have the oil pipelines open....there is no quick fix for years.... No nations are prepared to in any way replace the oil lines that go through Ukraine, they simply can’t, and Putin’s already planned how to bypass Ukraine entirely for oil distribution...so they really cooked their own goose.


79 posted on 04/02/2014 11:04:54 AM PDT by caww
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