Russia, Putin, Ukraine: Some Background

[Cold Heat]

I don’t care what you think.

It’s how this will end anyway so I say get it done and over with. More years, decades of threats. And false promises are not worth living....

Seems there a new crop of idiots who need educating about Russia....Happens every 30 years.

This is the long game they are playing. I can see it, but you can’t and from your words, you won’t see it until....

[Cold Heat]

He's been saying that before Thatcher...Loves the Rooskies though....salt of the earth..

[hummingbird]

“We put a man on the moon...”

And?

And now American NASA astronautes rely on Soyouz rocketry in Baikonur, to reach the ISS.

----------------------------------->

And NASA was arranged to educate Muslims...arranged by B. Hussein O.

[rbmillerjr]

“The Crimea population had the choice to express their choice in a referendum. Crimea was not “annexed”, as a republic it asked to join the Russian Federation”

Yes, the Imperial Russian idea of free elections, which you so profoundly propagandize, consists of sending armed goons into the streets, setting up roadblocks, putting Jack Boots on the ground...and then so warmly asking them all to vote their conscience.

LOL...how very Soviet of you. Not to mention that Crimea is part of Ukraine, a sovereign nation. Those kangaroo elections are meaningless.

[tcrlaf]

“Yes, the Imperial Russian idea of free elections,”

Is that kinda like the Chicago idea of a “free Election”?

[rbmillerjr]

The Chicago idea is both “educating” the stupid and paying off the apathetic.

The Russian idea is to put a Jack Boot on every corner and physically coerce the population.

[Cronos]

nice review, but I see a few faults:

1. The difference between Russian and Ukrainian is similar to the difference between our English and Chaucer's and anybody in the Ukraine who isn't retarded can speak Russian. -- not so different. Also, the fact of Ukrainians being able to speak Russian is due to centuries of rule by Moscow and intense Russification since the 1870s
2. for a period of a century or so until Russia started to get organized again, Poland and Lithuania began to look like serious countries on maps. -- Lithuania more than Poland as the native Baltic area is small. Also, the language of governance of the grand Duchy of Lithuania was Ruski -- old Belarussian, so it was heading towards being a Slavic state that had had non-Slavic rulers (like Kievan Rus or Bulgaria). Also, Poland-Lithuania was a "serious country" for much longer than a century from 1400 -- it was arguably strong until 1700. Finally, "Russia" is a misnomer for Moscow. The Poles as fellow Slavs did have chances to unite with the Eastern Slavs in 1610 when they conquered Moscow, but religion divided
3. In those days, the Ukraine was part of Poland and one of the biggest if not THE biggest celebrations there ever was in the Ukraine was when Russia took it over in the 1700s. -- wrong on two counts:
   1. only western Ukraine was part of Poland -- west of the Dnieper. To the east of the Dnieper there was never any serious control. Also, this was the badlands where the Crimean Tatars regularly took white slaves
   2. The biggest celebration? Really? Nope. The Khmelnitsky rebellion ended up with the Cossacks being conned by Moscow -- they wanted the Tsar's protection so a two-sided treaty, but what happened was that they signed away their freedom to the Tsar
4. My guess would be that languages which will still be in use by 2050 will include: -- From my travels, I would say that the demise prediction is incorrect. Language is identify, even if one is bi-lingual or multi-lingual. If you lose it, you lose your identity
   1. the Germanic languages: while German and English may predominate, there are many Dutch, Flemings, Scandanavians who retain their languages as well very effectively
   2. Romance languages: French and Spanish may be, but the Italians I've known who live in Italy (not the ones abroad) seem reluctant to learn any other language and they mostly don't need to. Also, Italian is fairly easy to pick up at the beginning. Also, Romanian is very alive and kicking and due to the poverty in Moldavia will remain the only language of many well into the 22nd century
   3. slavic languages: Russian yes, but Polish is pretty alive as is Serbo-Croat and even Czech and Slovak and Bulgarian.
   4. "sub-continent language" -- India has 4 families of languages: the Indo-european of which Hindi is dominant for now, but you also have 90 million Marathi speakers and 200 million Bengali speakers and millions of Punjabi and Kashmiri and Sindhi speakers. While Hindi subsumed Rajasthani, it is also being split by Bhojpuri speakers and there is a strong move to bring back Sanskrit (as in Uttarakhand). Besides the Indo-European, the Dravidian languages are strong: Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada, Tulu. And the Tibeto-Burman languages of the north-east continue
   5. Chinese language and Korean -- I don't know much about the far-east, so won't comment
   6. But you are forgetting Persian, Swahili,Tagalog, Bahasa Indonesian, Malay
   
   
5. Ukrainian is a dead language walking -- I disagree with that, specifically as ukrainian is more a language continuum rather than a language
6. The future of the Ukrainian people clearly lies with Russia. -- sorry, but that may be true of those east of the dnieper, but not for those to the west of the Dnieper
7. Vladimir Putin is the best Ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter -- forgetting Catherine the Great or Tsar Alexander? Vladimir is a good ruler for Russia, but he enriches his oligarchs rather than his people and under his watch, the Russian economy has become more dependent on high oil prices -- 70%+ of the economy is energy dependent
8. how many times does that make that Russia has bailed our hiney's out of some really awful kind of ****? Pic -- once, WWII. That's it

While modern Russia has a lot of good things going for it and I strongly support what Putin is doing in Syria, we cannot go the whole hog and say it's a beautiful regime

[Cronos]

but technically he was a leader of the Soviet Union and by his movement to replace all languages with Russian, he was a leader of Rossiya

[Cronos]

it's not that simple. By dominated -- do you mean raw numbers? Or economically and politically?

Also, there are Russian speakers who call themselves Ukrainian (I don't understand it, but there are) and there are Ukrainian speakers who may have some attachment to Russia perhaps mostly economically.

it's just not that simple Russians and Ukrainians

[Cronos]

Calm down. I disagree with Mt and varmint as well, but let’s not toss slurs around. At the end of the day, we’re all freepers, so let’s debate or argue sensibly.

[MarMema]

I have to say your points here are valid. In the mid-90's I hitch hiked around Moscow with a 3 yo child and felt extremely safe.

I seriously doubt that I would visit Russia right now. We have a police state and they have a corrupt police force.

I mean they always had bribery as part of the culture so to speak, but recent events there have made me wish for the Russia of the 90's.

As for the rest of it, they just don't like sickos like Pussy Riot and Soros.

[MarMema]

No way? I didn’t know that.

[MarMema]

Here is my stance. I have kept close tabs on Putin's Russia and posted early on ( here, last week or so ) about his abuses of neighboring countries with energy - including, I have no doubt, the pipeline that burst and caused freezing Georgians to stand in line, and the fire at the plant in Lithuania. His treatment of the Ukrainians has been ghastly over the years. He deserves this backlash.

He did not deserve the heat he took for Grozny though.

On the Crimea issue, however, we just look like idiots after what we did to Serbia. That's some serious hypocrisy. And as someone recently posted, Ukraine itself broke away to become independent from the USSR. Hello separatism.

I have deep concerns about the neonazi stuff associated with the current Ukraine govt.

Finally for those who want to go to war with Putin over this, first rescue Tibet from China - or you are a hypocrite.

[MarMema]

Not to mention that Crimea is part of Ukraine, a sovereign nation

Just as Kosovo was part of Serbia, a sovereign nation.

[MarMema]

At the end of the day, we’re all freepers, so let’s debate or argue sensibly.

Big hugs to you!!

[FreedomPoster]

It started before then. Homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic Statistical Manual (DSM) that the psychologists/psychiatrists use in 1973, and arguably by infiltration there. That didn’t happen in 3-4 short years.

[FreedomPoster]

Transport across the Atlantic is extremely problematic. There are no existing pipelines for a reason. LNG is difficult and expensive as well.

[Cronos]

well, look here --

1. I support somewhat what Russia is doing in Chechnya because the opponents are Moslems. But the fact is that the Chechens, dagestanis etc. have lived in that area at least since 4000 BC. The Russians did invade in the 18th century. And their people in the Kuban was a factor in pushing many north caucasus people to chose Islam (not the deciding factor, but it was A factor). But this was an invasion by Russia

2. I sympathise with the Ossetians -- they are a separate ethnicity from the Georgians who are looking to Georgianize everything -- I also sympathize with the Gergians but think they were wrong to do this to the Alanii and also that Russia was cynically using this to put Geogria in it's place

3. What he wants is to regain the greatness of Russia as set up by the great precursors Peter and Cathrine II, at the end of 18th century, but a new, modern Russia. -- Peter the Great yes, but Catherine incorporated millions of non-Russians into her lands. that is the problem if that's what Putin wants to do

[Cronos]

Russia didn't invade Crimea -- they just "nudged it" with military means to re-join Russia

They didn't need to invade.

[Cronos]

That's not the only concern. Poles truly believe that Russia seeks it's imperialist past, but Poles also look to having the states to the east also free.

Poland has long ties and relationships with Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine.