I live in Estonia and I remember the same propaganda blasted by Russia at us starting from ~1990. “If they would ever get their freedom they’d be coming back in 6 months begging on their knees to be taken back to the USSR”.
Hasn’t happened so far (and is never going to happen), but I guess after 25 years they felt safe reusing the same propaganda believing everyone has forgotten about it.
Still they did. Here is someones translation from a Russian language article.
*** Claim: Nobody in Europe needs Ukraine, they have nothing to offer Europe; their industry will collapse and they’ll crawl back on their knees, hungry and in rags, begging to be readmitted.
Well, the same things were said about the Baltics in the end of 80s and the beginning of 90s.
Literally the same things: they have nothing apart from sprats and agricultural produce, but Europe’s got plenty of those even without them. They have no resources, why would they ever think they’d make it?
20 years have passed, and the Baltics are lost to Russia. And, as everyone probably noticed, nobody’s been asking to be allowed back.
They didn’t starve and they didn’t freeze.
It turned out you could indeed live without the Soviet industry – and live an European life at that. Yes, the Baltics aren’t Benelux, but the Baltics are, undeniably, Europe. So what if these places are still relatively poor, at least they’re living nicely.
We must keep in kind that the Baltics have, indeed, very limited natural resources – so their present state is all the more impressive.
Now back to Ukraine. I’d like to ask you: why do you think that the tiny and resource-poor Estonia could find their place in Europe, but the large and naturally wealthy Ukraine somehow won’t be able to?
Resources aren’t just oil and gas, as we’ve gotten used to thinking. Resources also mean the people, the land, the climate and much, much more. All you need is time, and willingness to do something.
Your full reply to me is copied here for caww's benefit. I had to read twice to realize the question at the end of the article was not aimed at me: :-)
I live in Estonia and I remember the same propaganda blasted by Russia at us starting from ~1990. “If they would ever get their freedom they’d be coming back in 6 months begging on their knees to be taken back to the USSR”.
Hasn’t happened so far (and is never going to happen), but I guess after 25 years they felt safe reusing the same propaganda believing everyone has forgotten about it.
Just like the "Nazi" nonsense, eh?
Still they did. Here is someones translation from a Russian language article.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Claim: Nobody in Europe needs Ukraine, they have nothing to offer Europe; their industry will collapse and they’ll crawl back on their knees, hungry and in rags, begging to be readmitted.
Well, the same things were said about the Baltics in the end of 80s and the beginning of 90s.
Literally the same things: they have nothing apart from sprats and agricultural produce, but Europe’s got plenty of those even without them. They have no resources, why would they ever think they’d make it?
20 years have passed, and the Baltics are lost to Russia. And, as everyone probably noticed, nobody’s been asking to be allowed back.
They didn’t starve and they didn’t freeze.
It turned out you could indeed live without the Soviet industry – and live an European life at that. Yes, the Baltics aren’t Benelux, but the Baltics are, undeniably, Europe. So what if these places are still relatively poor, at least they’re living nicely.
We must keep in kind that the Baltics have, indeed, very limited natural resources – so their present state is all the more impressive.
Now back to Ukraine. I’d like to ask you: why do you think that the tiny and resource-poor Estonia could find their place in Europe, but the large and naturally wealthy Ukraine somehow won’t be able to?
Resources aren’t just oil and gas, as we’ve gotten used to thinking. Resources also mean the people, the land, the climate and much, much more. All you need is time, and willingness to do something.
That is one of the most inspiring things I have read for some time. So I stayed up very late and "studied up" on Estonia. (Unlike caww, I don't know everything already. Often I prefer to ask questions.)
Anyway, wow... Outside of the lack of God in the culture, Estonia certainly seems to be getting a lot of things right. This is especially noteworthy considering all you went through, until 1990! I am VERY impressed!
To the point, though, while I was researching Ukraine, I recall thinking: This country could be an economic powerhouse, up there with Germany and France, if it got it's act together. Therein lies the problem, I suppose: It's a "people thing". I have mentioned rooting out the corruption and market reforms, but I also suspect Ukrainians need confidence, and the knowledge that hard work and creativity, not shady deals and connections, will lead to greater success. (Am I anywhere "close" to correct?) Maybe Ukraine really does need more "independence" from Russia and a Russian outlook and ways, too?
Another question (anyone can chime in): Is it possible that to some extent, Putin believes his own propaganda about "Nazis", and fears that a Ukraine run by such would become economically successful and a real regional power? After all, even with all the effort expended in non-productive (and often horrific) activities, Nazi Germany was a VERY "efficient" system in some ways.
Or, perhaps Putin simply fears a more independent Ukraine that might pursue a path similar to Estonia's?