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To: A_perfect_lady

Jesus was not sanctioning tyrannical government. He was first of all turning the trap meant for him back on the Jews, exposing their hypocrisy. And he was making the distinction between tyrannical government—as inherent to the fallen nature of the world—and the supreme authority of God.

Caesar (the world, and all evil) vs God (the Spirit, and all good).

The sovereignty of the individual means the individual has an intrinsic value which cannot be displaced or outweighed by that of any other individual. This comes from the heart of Jesus’ message that each individual is cherished by him and invited to enjoy the glory of the Father through him.

Luke 12:7 “But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”

Luke 15:10 “Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

That each individual has value in God’s eyes is extremely powerful. Powerful as an idea, but even more so because it’s true. It breathed life into the philosophy underlying democratic principles, and planted the seed in the minds of common people that they had no less value than the ruling class. Culminating in the principles of liberty in our U.S. Constitution. There is no liberty without God.

Jesus teaches us to make the moral choice to take care of the poor. Taxation by the government eliminates free choice in the matter, stealing the opportunity for the individual to make a moral decision to help the poor. Seen in this light, taxation is the opposite of what Jesus wants.

Matthew 19:21, “Jesus said to him, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.’”

Also Mark 10:21, and Luke 18:22.


48 posted on 03/02/2014 9:51:18 PM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: A_perfect_lady

I’m not saying taxes are completely wrong. I think they’re necessary for basic functioning of society, and beyond that it’s God’s will that we generally obey the laws of our government.

But I do believe the poor would do a lot better if their care were left to private sources of charity rather than government.


49 posted on 03/02/2014 9:58:22 PM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: reasonisfaith
I’m not saying taxes are completely wrong. I think they’re necessary for basic functioning of society, and beyond that it’s God’s will that we generally obey the laws of our government. But I do believe the poor would do a lot better if their care were left to private sources of charity rather than government.

Oh, I agree 100%. I'm just saying there's no reason to believe Jesus would have agreed. Separation of church and state was not a burning idea in the Middle East 2000 years ago. It's still not.

Jesus was not sanctioning tyrannical government. He was first of all turning the trap meant for him back on the Jews, exposing their hypocrisy. And he was making the distinction between tyrannical government—as inherent to the fallen nature of the world—and the supreme authority of God.

If he was calling Caesar tyrannical it was because Caesar was Roman and the Jews wanted self-rule, not because Caesar was using tax money to help the poor (because I doubt he was.)

The sovereignty of the individual means the individual has an intrinsic value which cannot be displaced or outweighed by that of any other individual. This comes from the heart of Jesus’ message that each individual is cherished by him and invited to enjoy the glory of the Father through him.

That's great. What's it got to do with using tax money to help the poor?

That each individual has value in God’s eyes is extremely powerful. Powerful as an idea, but even more so because it’s true. It breathed life into the philosophy underlying democratic principles, and planted the seed in the minds of common people that they had no less value than the ruling class. Culminating in the principles of liberty in our U.S. Constitution. There is no liberty without God.

Touching. What's that got to do with using tax money to help the poor?

Jesus teaches us to make the moral choice to take care of the poor. Taxation by the government eliminates free choice in the matter, stealing the opportunity for the individual to make a moral decision to help the poor. Seen in this light, taxation is the opposite of what Jesus wants.

No it doesn't. It adds to it. You still have plenty left over to help in the way you chose. Indeed, this way you can give twice. You help support government organizations that (at least theoretically) help on a grand scale, and you can pinpoint more locally the ones you want to help personally. Because please, please tell me you are honest enough to admit that Jesus had no interest at all in making sure the rich stay rich. He told one young man to give all he had to the poor and follow him. Presumably he meant "all you have left after taxes."

Matthew 19:21, “Jesus said to him, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.’”

Ah, thank you, there it is. Does this sound like a man concerned that the governments using some of your money will preclude you from handing yet more of it over freely?

60 posted on 03/03/2014 5:48:03 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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