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Opinion: What the West owes Ukraine
CNN ^ | February 25, 2014 | Timothy Snyder

Posted on 02/26/2014 1:00:53 PM PST by No One Special

A true revolution doesn't come every day. The word "revolution" appears all around us, in commercial advertisements and political propaganda, until it seems to have lost all meaning.

The most minor tumult, the smallest change, and immediately we pronounce the word. And so when the real thing arrives, with tyranny and blood, with masses striving for freedom, with an ancient regime destroyed and a new one born, we might just fail to see its significance.

The spark that began the revolution was something called Europe: a trade agreement with the European Union that many Ukrainians saw as a chance to enter a world of free trade rather than government syndicates, and the rule of law rather than overwhelming corruption. When President Viktor Yanukovych, after months of promised, rejected the deal in November, Ukrainians protested.

The students were the first to reach the "Maidan," the main square of Kiev. They are the ones who already considered themselves Europeans, and took a European future for granted. After the riot police were sent to beat them, they were joined by the "Afghans," the veterans of the Soviet war in Afghanistan.

Then came the businessmen, the professionals, the people who had hoped to make an honest living, but found themselves thwarted by unpredictable taxes and corruption. In December, hundreds of thousands of people, from all parts of the country and all walks of life, were on the streets.

Then Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared with a proposal. Why not take 15 billion euros from Russia instead of playing around with Europe? Although the Russian side promised that the loan was without conditions, Russian leaders then explained that disbursements could only follow when political stability had been established.

In January, President Yanukovych formally did away with basic freedoms. A package of legislation introduced by a...

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: ukraine
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To: No One Special

Free Trade?

Is THAT what they saw?

How about Gay “Rights”?

How about Muslims taking over your major cities?

How about economic collapse?

How about destruction of Christianity?

The EU should die - as quickly as possible.


21 posted on 02/26/2014 1:53:23 PM PST by ZULU (Magua is sitting in the Oval Office. Ted Cruz/Phil Robertson in 2016.)
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To: mac_truck

Also, did I advocate IMF involvement? Can you show me where I did?


22 posted on 02/26/2014 1:54:02 PM PST by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Billthedrill

You agree with me if you recognize that Ukraine needs help and you want to see them get help.

Neither the editorial’s author or myself hate Ukrainians.


23 posted on 02/26/2014 2:02:03 PM PST by No One Special
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To: No One Special

I see Ukranian Nazis fighting ethnic Russian nazis fighting Communists.

Can’t say I care who wins.


24 posted on 02/26/2014 2:02:34 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: Vinylly; No One Special
Our so-called leader should be more concerned about Venezuela then the Ukraine but he’s Hugo Chivez’s lover.

Yuck! You mean Obama is a necrophile too!

25 posted on 02/26/2014 2:07:04 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: No One Special

The only time the media dropped the ball on the “revolution” word when it was fully appropriate was when Barry was sworn in.


26 posted on 02/26/2014 2:21:01 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: MeanWestTexan

My goodness, you see things so clearly.

One question: Do you actually know any Ukrainians?


27 posted on 02/26/2014 2:43:58 PM PST by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: No One Special

What we owe the Ukranians is thanks for giving us a preview of how events are likely to unfold here in the USA. Substitute “Obama” for “Yanukovych” and “Xi Jinping” for “Vladimir Putin”. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you!


28 posted on 02/26/2014 2:51:57 PM PST by bopdowah ("Unlike King Midas, whatever the Gubmint touches sure don't turn to Gold!')
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To: Belteshazzar

The ones that so willingly collaborated with Nazis and murdered my family are enough.


29 posted on 02/26/2014 2:57:29 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: ZULU

There is no question in my mind that the Ukrainians were simply mistaken. They did not understand that Putin, and Russia, their benevolent neighbors, only meant the very best for them. And if anyone could make the trains run on time . . . Vladi would.


30 posted on 02/26/2014 3:36:07 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: No One Special
The real story.


31 posted on 02/26/2014 3:37:44 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: No One Special

Let the two countries break themselves up into East and West:

give Russia the entry to a port on the Black Sea, let the Easterners have entry to a port on the Black sea, then have the ability to run their own country. Allow cross border immigration across the new border for ten years

Gee, maybe I should write to John “effin” with my settlement.


32 posted on 02/26/2014 3:54:42 PM PST by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: No One Special

Where does one find truth in an article written by a leftist Yale professor for one of the premier neo-Nazi propaganda media outlets called CNN?


33 posted on 02/26/2014 4:04:48 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: sergeantdave

Same place most Russians look . . . up their ass.


34 posted on 02/26/2014 4:25:33 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: MeanWestTexan

I see. So all subsequent generations are, by association of ethnicity, guilty of the crimes of that generation? Well, I hope you hate all Germans equally as well. That will sure help humanity.

By that token all blacks in the USA should hate you as well ... and all Cherokee, Lakota, Cheyenne, etc. etc. etc.

Enjoy your morality.


35 posted on 02/26/2014 4:49:45 PM PST by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: sergeantdave
A little taste of his book, "Bloodlands - Europe Between Hitler and Stalin" can be found here and here.

The fiirst is the author's site and the second is a partial review by Ta-Nehisi Coates. This is where I got the following passage from the book about the Holodomor:

Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was “not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you.” The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did.

I found some truth in it and would not characterize it as ideologically driven in any way whatsoever.

We all have our blind spots.

Hope this helps.

36 posted on 02/26/2014 5:05:30 PM PST by No One Special
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To: No One Special

Appreciate your synopsis of the situation as you see it.

I’ll check it out tomorrow.

Semper fi, FRiend.


37 posted on 02/26/2014 5:22:07 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: Belteshazzar

The best path for the people of Ukraine is independence.

There are zero people trying to maneuver them into an alliance with either the Russians or the EU who do not have an agenda detrimental to the Ukrainians.

They have all kind of dishonest but transparent excuses to try to argue for pushing them one way or another.


38 posted on 02/26/2014 6:09:56 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd

You are probably right, but it will be a very difficult path.


39 posted on 02/26/2014 6:53:38 PM PST by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
The insolvency of Greece, Spain, Cyprus etc. are not the fault of the EU. It's their own fault. The EU is imposing unpopular austerity measures. Because of Yanukovich’s corruption and embezzlement of billions Ukraine is on the verge of bankruptcy and the new government is already talking about the unpopular measures they will have to take to stabilize the economy after the gangster criminal Yanukovich has ruined it so badly.
Ukraine PM Yatsenyuk warns of 'unpopular steps' ahead - February 26, 2014 - "We are to undertake extremely unpopular steps as the previous government and previous president were so corrupted that the country is in a desperate financial plight," Mr Yatsenyuk told the BBC after the cabinet was announced.

40 posted on 02/26/2014 8:27:04 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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