Posted on 02/21/2014 1:00:00 PM PST by 1rudeboy
KIEV, Ukraine — A frenzy of shuttle diplomacy and hard compromises produced what may be a breakthrough in Ukraine’s 3-month-old political standoff, a crisis that this week prompted the deadliest violence in the country’s modern history.
Protesters remain angry over corruption, crackdowns on democratic freedoms and President Viktor Yanukovych’s decision to tighten trade ties with Russia instead of Europe. Radical members are threatening new violence.
But Yanukovych has ceded powers, the re-energized parliament is assuming new authority and events moved faster than ever Friday toward a possible end to the crisis.
Here’s a guide to what’s been happening:
DIVIDED COUNTRY
The protests began in November when Yanukovych abruptly refused to sign a long-anticipated political association and free trade agreement with the European Union, opting instead for closer ties with Russia. Yanukovych is widely despised in western Ukraine, but has strong support in the Russian-speaking east, where he’s from, as well as in the south.
The pro-Western demonstrators saw Yanukovych’s move as a betrayal of national interests and submission to Moscow, and demanded that that he reverse his decision. Their number swelled to hundreds of thousands after a brutal crackdown by riot police. Their demands grew more radical to include Yanukovych’s resignation and early elections.
His supporters in the east, meanwhile, see the protesters and the opposition as manipulated and financed by the West, and feel greater economic and cultural connection to Russia.
VIOLENCE ERUPTS
Peaceful rallies turned abruptly violent in January after parliament, dominated by Yanukovych supporters, passed repressive laws intended to quash the protest. Radical protesters hurled firebombs and stones at police, who retaliated with stun grenades, tear gas and rubber bullets. At least four people died and hundreds were injured.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Pretty tolerant, because anyone who orders the shooting of peaceful protestors should probably plan to spend the rest of his life in prison or in exile in a country that doesn't extradite wanted Americans. Fear of future prosecution is why government officials are pussy-footing around as regards Iraq and Afghanistan rules of engagement. It's not the current administration they need to worry about - it's future administrations. A number of Bush administration officials have had to spend large sums of money staying out of prison. There is no statute of limitations for murder.
Tell me, then, that all the talk about spreading democracy in the world isn’t so much BS. Democracy is just a buzzword used by politicians in an attempt to persuade people they have a voice in their government.
Politicians no more care about democracy than they do about laws and justice. They support the governments they like and are eager to overthrow the ones they don’t. For the west to pretend that it really cares about the people’s voice is nonsense. It’s all phony.
First of all, you should try to distinguish between democracy, and subversion of democracy. Just a hint, or never complain about Dem electoral corruption again.
Agreed, and our politicians don’t care a fig about democracy or the law, either.
“Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy.” - Franz Kafka
Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. It’s a bad form of government, and it always leads to corruption. That is why our founders created a republic.
If our politicians weren't ambitious self-serving individuals who'd sell their mothers to get ahead, I'd agree with you. The reality of the political world is that a guy who shoots peaceful protestors is politically dead and perhaps criminally-liable for murder. Because his "colleagues" will flay him alive and step on his bloodied carcass on their way to higher office.
That doesn't seem to be much of a problem for Lon Horiuchi.
Looks like it’s time for a split. Of course, like any divorce, it is inlikely to be friendly.
We will see more and more of this. Check out the book, The Sovereign Individual by Davidson and Rees-Mogg. It predicts this dissolution of large political entities. We are in for some chaotic times.
Can we please stay on topic?
He has reportedly fled, and twitter says Yulia Tymoshenko has been freed.
As I replied on another thread, apparently unarmed/lightly armed protesters against the police can accomplish quite a bit.
Exactly what “solution” do they propose? Considering that the US is living on borrowed money, that our own politicians are working hard to destroy our economy and our freedom, and that the US’ record on making other countries “make nice”is a massive failure, I think anything the US would attempt would only cause more problems.
Have people noticed that the large nation states are crumbling? China, Russia, Japan, the US, and the European countries all have big problems. It could be we are seeing the end of an era. It’s not going to be pretty, but we are probably looking at more of this “downsizing” in almost every country in the world.
Indeed. Things are changing quick.
This MAY be Yanukovych’s flight - I haven’t got it confirmed yet, but a source of mine (former student) said this is his.
Flight AOJ92C
http://www.flightradar24.com/AOJ92C/2c1d69f
His target was known to be an armed survivalist holed up in a remote cabin. Like it or not, armed survivalists are marginal figures in the public perception. The shooting of hundreds or thousands of unarmed demonstrators on live TV is a different kettle of fish. If you are suggesting that the public reaction to a bunch of armed demonstrators being shot to death will be mild, I will have to agree with you there.
Slovenia and the old Yugoslavia didn't do so bad either. Croatia and Serbia may have done the same without the Muslim factor in the mix. That made it very ugly. Indeed, one of the nastiest civil wars of the 1990s.
Ukraine, even under its present boundaries, is still over 70% ethnic Ukrainian. Of course, a fair share of those speak Russian as a first language and are located in the blue areas.
Still, after the recent bloodshed, they might be seriously rethinking their votes. Maybe a few Obama voters would do the same, but I'm not optimistic that we could solve it with less bloodshed than Ukraine has suffered this go-round.
Not this Russian army. It's a rusting, drunk, undisciplined, unprofessional corrupted shell of the Red army it used to be. It's runs on 60's and 70's tech. It's pilots don't fly much, it's armor is sitting and rusting, it takes decades to build new subs due to lack of cash and however much of the fleet that is able to sail rarely gets to do so. It would cost Russia dearly to invade Ukraine.
The focus on Horiuchi is misplaced. The ROE's in place until the casualties occurred were imposed by his superiors. Ultimately, any impetus to prosecute senior FBI officials for Ruby Ridge was dissipated by the Oklahoma bombing. Nonetheless, the Clinton administration paid millions in compensation to the Weaver family to avoid more information about official malfeasance from getting out:
The surviving members of the Weaver family filed a wrongful death suit. To avoid trial and a possibly higher settlement, the federal government awarded Randy Weaver a $100,000 settlement and his three daughters $1 million each in August 1995. In the out-of-court settlement, the government did not admit any wrongdoing in the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver.
I don't understand the mentality of people like McVeigh. If he had wanted to get back at the people responsible for Waco, he could have targeted people in the chain of command ranging from boots on the ground types all the way up to Janet Reno. Similarly, he could have gone after Lon Horiuchi and gotten him to divulge the names of his superiors, and so on. Instead, he went after a bunch of people who had nothing to do with either Waco or Ruby Ridge.
So your solution is to give up and become communist, like we have here?
Rude we rarely agree but on this issue you are absolutely correct. Seems we have a bunch of Sowell wannabes showing up to advise us on how to surrender.
Drink!
His target was a women carrying her baby in her arms liar.
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