Annihilation or Eternal Punishment?

Annihilationism is the view that lost people in hell will be exterminated after they have paid the penalty for their sins. Its proponents offer six main arguments.

First is an argument based on the Bible’s use of fire imagery to describe hell. We are told that fire consumes what is thrown into it, and so it will be for the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8)—it will burn up the wicked so that they no longer exist.

Second is an argument based on texts that speak of the lost perishing or being destroyed. Examples include unbelievers perishing (John 3:16) and suffering “the punishment of eternal destruction” (2 Thess. 1:8).

Third is an argument based on the meaning of the word eternal. In hell passages, it is claimed, eternal means only pertaining to “the age to come” and not “everlasting.”

Fourth is an argument based on a distinction between time and eternity. Annihilationists ask: how is it just of God to punish sinners for eternity when their crimes were committed in time?

Fifth is an emotional argument that God Himself and His saints would never enjoy heaven if they knew some human beings (let alone loved ones and friends) were perpetually in hell.

Sixth is an argument that an eternal hell would tarnish God’s victory over evil. Scripture declares that God will be victorious in the end; He will “be all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28). We are told that this idea seems hard to reconcile with human beings suffering endlessly in hell.

I will answer each of these arguments in turn. First is the argument from hellfire. Many passages use this language without interpreting it. It is possible, therefore, to read various views into such passages, including annihilationism. However, we do not want to read our ideas into the Bible, but to get our ideas from the Bible. And when we do, we find that some passages preclude an annihilationist understanding of hellfire. These include Jesus’s description of hell in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as a “place of torment” (Luke 16:28) involving “anguish in this flame” (v. 24).

When the last book of the Bible describes the flames of hell, it does not speak of consumption but says the lost “will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night” (Rev. 14:10–11).

Second is the argument from passages that speak of destruction or perishing. Once again, when Scripture merely uses these words without interpreting them, many views may be read into them. But once again, we want to read out of Scripture its meaning. And some passages are impossible to reconcile with annihilationism. Paul describes the fate of the lost as suffering “the punishment of eternal destruction” (2 Thess. 1:8). Also telling is the fate of the Beast in Revelation. “Destruction” is prophesied for him in 17:8, 11. The Beast (along with the False Prophet) is cast into “the lake of fire that burns with sulfur” (19:20). Scripture is unambiguous when it describes the fate of the devil, Beast, and False Prophet in the lake of fire: “They will be tormented day and night forever and ever” (20:10). So, the Beast’s “destruction” is everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

Third is the argument from the word eternal. In hell passages, it is claimed, eternal means only pertaining to “the age to come” and not “everlasting.” It is true that in the New Testament, eternal means “agelong,” with the context defining the age. And in texts treating eternal destinies, eternal does refer to the age to come. But the age to come lasts as long as the life of the eternal God Himself. Because He is eternal—He “lives forever and ever” (Rev. 4:9, 10; 10:6; 15:7)—so is the age to come. Jesus plainly sets this forth in His message on the sheep and goats: “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matt. 25:46; italics added). The punishment of the lost in hell is coextensive to the bliss of the righteous in heaven—both are everlasting.

Fourth is the argument that it is unjust of God to punish sinners eternally for temporal sins. It strikes me as presumptuous for human beings to tell God what is just and unjust. We would do better to determine from His Holy Word what He deems just and unjust.

Jesus leaves no doubt. He will say to the saved, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Matt. 25:34). He will say to the lost, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (v. 41). We have already seen John define that fire as eternal conscious punishment in the lake of fire for the devil (Rev. 20:10). A few verses later, we read that unsaved human beings share the same fate (vv. 14–15). Evidently, God thinks it just to punish human beings who rebel against Him and His holiness with everlasting hell. Is it really our place to call this unjust?

I will treat the fifth and sixth arguments together. The fifth is the emotional argument that God and His saints would never enjoy heaven if they knew loved ones and friends were forever in hell. The sixth is the argument that an eternal hell would tarnish God’s victory over evil. It is noteworthy that universalists use these same two arguments to insist that God will finally save every human being. God and His people would not enjoy the bliss of heaven if even one soul remained in hell, they argue. In the end, everyone will be saved. And God would suffer defeat if any creatures made in His image were to perish forever.

I regard these arguments for annihilationism and universalism—from emotion and from God’s victory—as rewriting the biblical story, something we have no right to do. I say this because the Bible’s final three chapters present the eternal state of affairs. The resurrected saints will be blessed with God’s eternal presence on the new earth (Rev. 21:1–4). And, interestingly for our present discussion, each of Scripture’s final three chapters presents the fate of the unsaved:

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (20:10)

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown in to the lake of fire. (vv. 14–15)

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. (21:8)

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (22:14–15)

The Bible’s story does not end by saying, “And the unrighteous were destroyed and exist no more.” Neither does it say, “And in the end all persons will be gathered into the love of God and be saved.” Rather, when God brings His story to a close, His people rejoice in endless bliss with Him on the new earth. But the wicked will endure never-ending torment in the lake of fire and be shut out of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is the joyous dwelling place of God and His people forever.

We have no right to rewrite the biblical story. Rather, we must leave it to God to define what is just and unjust and what is commensurate with His being “all in all.” He does not leave us in doubt about hell because He loves sinners and wants them to believe the gospel in this life.

How kind and merciful of Him to include this invitation at the end of His story: “The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come.’ And let the one who hears say, ‘Come.’ And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price” (Rev. 22:17). All who trust Jesus in His death and resurrection to rescue them from hell will have a part in the Tree of Life and the Holy City of God. All who do so with all the saints can say now and will say forever:

Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for his judgments are true and just. (19:1–2)

yes, it is pretty clear. not necessarily comprehensive since it had to fit publication constraints. but the source site, run by those educated in the languages of the original text and in theology, are a wee bit more trustworthy than those who cite wikipedia as a fount of knowledge.
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You’re getting abrasive for no reason.

I didn’t cite Wikipedia as the end-all and be-all of knowledge. I used it as an example of the author not even scanning the most rudimentary of sources (and I consider Wikipedia to be a VERY rudimentary source - a starting point ONLY, eventually leading to actual, dependable, primary sources) when making arguments for or against a particular position.

The fact that the author conflated a universalist position with the annihilationist one is a good example of poor argumentation. Annihilationism shares nothing with universalism; it would be easier to argue that the doctrine of eternal torture leads to universalism than to argue annihilationism does.

Does your “bye” mean that you no longer want to discuss the matter with me? I still have questions I’d like ask you, if you’d be gracious enough to answer them.

I’ll start off with the following:

Question #1:
When does the soul begin to exist?

Question #2:
Assuming souls are personal and individual, are we each responsible for the state of our souls, or do ancestors affect the state of an individual’s soul, e.g. must a son’s soul pay for the sins of the father? Does the salvation of a father affect the son’s soul in any direct way?

Question #3:
Is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Savior and the Only Begotten Son of God the only way to enter Heaven (or to attain eternal life)?

There is no other place in the Bible where what you say is true. The Greek word "apollymi" (αποκτειναι) always means "kill" or "destroy". If you have a reference other than Matthew 10:28 that disproves my claim, I will happily concede. Otherwise, "kill" means "kill", no more, no less.

This presumes that the laws of physics all apply in the spiritual realm, and which do not in Lk. 16:19ff, and that "killing" in the spiritual sense cannot be some everlasting form of destruction, but in which the soul cannot be destroyed.

From http://reformedthinker.blogspot.com/2013/05/refuting-shepherds-chapel-hell-matthew.html: If one discusses the subject of hell with a student of Shepherd's Chapel probably the first verse that they will quote to defend annihilationism is Matthew 10:28.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28, KJV)

Arnold Murray along with his followers will latch on to the word "destroy" in this verse and claim that it means blotted out or annihilation. Thus, to them, this verse teaches annihilationism straight from Jesus' mouth. The word destroy used in this verse is the Greek work apollymi (#G622). A few words must be said about this word. First, as used in Scripture the words “destroy,” “destruction,” “perish” etc. never signify cessation of existence. Second, you can go back in this same chapter in verse 6 and see how this word is used:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt. 10:6, KJV)

The word "lost" used in this verse is the exact same Greek word apollymi that is used in verse 28 for "destroy". As you can tell the word does not mean blotted out or annihilated. These sheep (Israelites) that Christ is talking about were not obliterated or blotted out, they were rather lost or separated from the true Shepherd (Christ). This is similar to those "destroyed" in hell, they are separated from Christ for all eternity (Rev. 22:15). This refutes Shepherd's Chapel's claim that meaning of apollymi in Matthew 10:28 teaches annihilation. The Greek word apollymi is also used in the following verses (the bolded word is the Greek word apollymi):

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. (Matthew 18:11, KJV)

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? (Luke 15:4, KJV)

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.(Luke 15:24, KJV)

As can be seen the Greek word apollymi does not mean total annihilation, blotted out, or cessation of existence. Arnold Murray, as he has done many times, misuses the Greek or shows lack of understanding of how the Greek language works.

So, briefly, what does the Bible teach on hell? Well here is one thing that Christ said about it:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matt. 25:46, KJV)

This punishment of hell Christ describes as everlasting. I have heard Shepherd's Chapel students claim that since annihilation is everlasting then it is everlasting punishment. This is not possible in the Greek syntax. the word for everlasting is aionios in the Greek and it modifies the nature of the punishment, not the results of the punishment. In this verse aionios modifies kalasis "punishment", which is an action noun. Greek nouns that end with –sis will focus on the action of the noun and not it's results. You can compare 2 Thess. 2:16 to see a parallel. In that verse aionios modifies paraklesis “comfort”, another –sis ending action noun. So this verse proves that Christ taught an everlasting hell of punishment. Also we have this:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Rev. 14:11, KJV)

This again is another favorite verse for Shepherd's Chapel. When you use this verse to prove the Biblical view of everlasting hell then they will jump on you and say "look it says the smoke of their torment ascendeth for ever and ever. Only the smoke.". Ha! Gotcha right? Well no.

First, what is the smoke? It is of their "torment". It doesn't say it was the smoke of their annihilation, but the smoke of their torment. If the smoke ascends forever and ever, and the cause of the smoke is the torment, then it stands to reason that the torment lasts forever and ever. Second, if you continue to read this verse it states clearly that they have no rest day nor night. It does not say they were annihilated and the smoke rose for eternity. This verse clearly teaches that they are tormented for eternity and have no rest day or night.

This verse is very similar to Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev. 20:10, KJV)

After judgment is passed down to Satan and his minions they are all thrown into the lake of fire and tormented day and night forever and ever. If this verse teaches anything, it at least teaches that Satan is tormented in hell for eternity. If you continue reading Revelation chapter 20 then you will see that all those in hell are cast into this exact same lake of fire (Rev. 20:14, also Matt 25:41). Again since they are cast into the same lake of fire the Devil is then the same punishment is dealt out. Also if you continue reading Revelation and in the last chapter (after all this has taken place) you see that the unsaved were not annihilated in Revelation chapter 20 but cast outside the Great City:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (Rev. 22:14-15, ESV)

I have heard the students of Shepherd's Chapel claim that "forever and ever" does not mean eternity but simply a period of time. This is absolutely impossible in the Greek. The Greek phrase is eis tous aionas ton aionon and is often translated as forever, forevermore, and forever and ever. It is also used of the attributes of God which we know are unchangeable and are eternal. Please compare how this Greek phrase is used in the following verses of Scripture especially the ones in Revelation: Gal. 1:5, Phil. 4:20, 1 Tim. 1:17, 2 Tim. 4:18, Heb. 13:21, 1 Pet. 4:11, Rev. 1:6, Rev. 1:18, Rev. 4:9, Rev. 4:10, Rev. 5:13, Rev. 7:12, Rev. 10:6, Rev. 11:15, Rev. 15:7, Rev. 22:5

If you do your research and actually read those verses you will see that eis tous aionas ton aionon does not mean a temporary amount of time, but is basically the Greek way of saying eternity.

From The eternality of Hell - a refutation of annihilationism; by Steve Johnstone: http://www.academia.edu/5579795/The_eternality_of_Hell_-_a_refutation_of_annihilationism: It is difficult to better Douglas Moo’s comments on 2 Thess 1:8-9: The words need not mean “destruction” in the sense of “extinction”. In fact, leaving aside for the moment judgment texts, none of the key terms usually has this meaning in the Old and New Testaments. Rather, they usually refer to the situation of a person or object that has lost the essence of its nature or function…The key words for “destroy” and “destruction” can also refer to land that has lost its fruitfulness ( olethros in Ezek 6:14; 14:16); to ointment that is poured out wastefully and to no apparent purpose ( apoleia in Matt 26:8; Mark 14:4); to wineskins that can no longer function because they have holes in them ( apollymi in Matt 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37) to a coin that is useless because it is “lost” ( apollymi in Luke 15:9); or to the entire world that “perishes,” as an inhabited world, in the flood ( apollymi in 2 Pet 3:6).

In none of these cases do the objects cease to exist; they cease to be useful or to exist in their original, intended state…The people who are the objects of destruction continue to exist in some form. It makes little sense to describe people who have been annihilated as being separate from the presence of God.” 27 Grudem agrees, saying, “It must be said that the passages which speak of destruction do not necessarily imply the cessation of existence.” 28 -

Also: http://www.bible.ca/su-annihilation-refuted.htm

In addition, Lk. 16:19-33 itself is clear enough to refute Annihilationism, as it is not a parable, as in parables not only are real names never used, but neither is science fiction. And if Annihilationism were true then one could not be dead yet be conscious and sensible to pain, but here a man is dead yet crying out in torments, not only in thirst but in fear that his loved ones come into this place of torment.

It doesn’t make sense to me. Why would God create us, and then torture us for eternity? Why inflict so much pain? What is the point? To scare us into accepting Jesus Christ? I didn’t get this when I was a kid, and I still don’t get it.

Despite the inability of atheists to see it, first, even though higher motives are required for a Christian to follow Christ, appeal to self-preservation is a legitimate means of salvific motivation, thus even in this life it is the threat of punishment which is the base motivation for many in many things.

But while this often may be effectual in bringing a souls to repentance, it is the love of Christ, in response to so great a salvation for so great a sinner at so great a cost, that is to most supremely motivate the believer.

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:" "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Corinthians 5:14-15)

"We love him, because he first loved us." "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" (1 John 4:19-20)

"Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;" "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour." (Ephesians 5:1-2)

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Second, God did not create man just to destroy Him, but to be the recipient of His grace and to respond to it, and thus to manifest what is good and evil. This requires that one be able to make choices, and with choices come consequences. And as man is eternal, so are the consequences, and what one does with the Truth given him, which is obeyed will lead to The Truth, Jesus Christ, reveals what he really loves, and where he will spend eternity.

Your post also touches on the issue of how there can be a good God yet suffering in the world, which issue is called Theodicy.

In which my proposals are that God could have,

1. made us (and angels) with no moral sense and or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible].

2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices].

3. provided moral revelation and influences but always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (such as make believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary so that no man could attempt excuses [effective negation of any freedom to choose].

4. allowed us to do evil, but immediately reversed any effects [negation of moral consequences].

5. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [restriction of moral consequences].

6. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of eternal moral consequences].

7. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose from, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment us accordingly [pure justice].

8. in accordance with the above, except have manifested Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God’s own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one’s quality of work as a child of God.

And conversely, eternal punish to varying degrees those whose response to God’s revelation manifested they want evil, while making the evil that man does to work for the good of those who want good, and who thus love God, who is good [justice maintained while mercy and grace given.

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