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To: LonePalm
I do not understand your skepticism/ antipathy towards AA.

I have neither. I am only pointing out that nobody really knows if it is effective because there are no statistics.

One can say, It helped me, or it helped my friend, but one cannot honestly say it is better than any other method, or even better than quitting on your own. The only way to know that is to keep accurate records and compare it to accurate records of people who quit on their own.

You are welcome to believe it is effective, but that is a matter of faith. Since there are NO accurate records of AA's effectiveness, it cannot be stated as fact.

Facts are not feelings or "what everybody feels."

89 posted on 02/13/2014 1:52:26 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
As I pointed out before, recovery statistics for AA are meaningless. It works 100% of the time for those who apply its principles in their lives. It has worked for me because I wanted to stay sober more than I wanted to drink. I just didn't know how to do it. AA provided me with a program that worked because I was willing to do the work. Who gets the credit for me staying sober, me or AA? Who cares?

If someone comes to AA, or any other group, for whatever reason but isn't willing to do the work, their failure is their own and not a reflection on AA or whatever program they attend.

If it takes someone one, two, or twenty relapses before they become willing to follow the program do you count that as failure or success? Is the problem the program or the person? The first six guys I sponsored went out after less than a month. The next six are still sober after more than five years. Was it me? No. Nothing I could have said would have stopped the first six from going out. Nothing I could have said to the second six would have made them drink because they WANTED to be sober more than they wanted to drink.

That AA works for so many people of varying ages, social status, income, religion (or not), education (or not), language, or culture strikes me as a testament to its effectiveness and applicability.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

95 posted on 02/13/2014 2:55:32 PM PST by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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