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To: Olog-hai

Not 100% sure I understand the Bill, but there needs to be great care here. I once taught a Sunday School class about prayer in school and everyone was 100% for it ... until I talked about the fact that it might not be a (insert religion here) prayer. Then they were 100% against it.

While not at ALL advocating ANYTHING resembling gay marriage, civil unions, etc etc etc you’ve gotta be very careful about permitting people to not serve, etc others just because they don’t like them. History is loaded with examples of that coming back to bite those people in the a**.


9 posted on 02/12/2014 10:42:29 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: RIghtwardHo
...you’ve gotta be very careful about permitting people to not serve, etc others just because they don’t like them.

Nope, you wouldn't want to allow that freedom. It's a slippery slope.

13 posted on 02/12/2014 10:48:31 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: RIghtwardHo

“While not at ALL advocating ANYTHING resembling gay marriage, civil unions, etc etc etc you’ve gotta be very careful about permitting people to not serve, etc others just because they don’t like them. History is loaded with examples of that coming back to bite those people in the a**.”

Sure, there’s a price to pay for freedom sometimes. If I can refuse service to someone, they can refuse service to me. Obviously, that can cause problems, we only need to go back a few decades to see that.

However, what is the alternative? Since we surrendered our right to do business with whomever we choose, we have been subjected to an ever-expanding list of groups we must do business with. So, we see the coercive force of the government is using this new found power to grant special privileges to certain groups over others. Arming politicians seeking votes with that magic wand of favoritism is a dangerous thing. They won’t ever restrain themselves from using it if they find it is to their own advantage.

Even setting that quibble aside, there’s a fundamental rights issue that needs to be addressed. First, we should establish: do we have a right to refuse service, and conversely, do we have a right to expect to receive service? For the sake of argument, let’s say that we have both of those rights. Now, how would we determine which right takes precedence, when they are in conflict? For that answer, you have to turn to the foundations of liberalism (real classical liberalism, not progressivism), since those questions were answered centuries ago by guys like Locke and Hobbes.

It turns out that not all rights are equal. If a right derives from natural law, it automatically takes precedence over a right that is conferred by some sovereign or legal authority. I’d argue that the right to refuse service is a natural right, while the right to receive service cannot be anything other than a conferred right. The reason is that, in order to have a right to receive service, I must be able to force another to perform an action, possibly against their will. This violates the principle of liberty, which is the highest principle of all in natural law. On the other hand, the right to refuse services forces noone to do anything against their will, it is simply an assertion of liberty itself. So, when these two rights come into conflict, the natural one, the right to refuse service, must take precedence.


15 posted on 02/12/2014 11:15:05 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: RIghtwardHo
Not 100% sure I understand the Bill, but there needs to be great care here. I once taught a Sunday School class about prayer in school and everyone was 100% for it ... until I talked about the fact that it might not be a (insert religion here) prayer. Then they were 100% against it.

I've been "preaching" that message for years. There's absolutely nothing stopping kids now from praying in school. Do we really want government approved prayer in schools? That's a rhetorical question.

Do we want prayer from principals and teachers of (name that religion) leading our children in prayer?

Teach your children how to pray wherever they want to.

I don't want my children/grand childre n learning to be "diverse" in their prayers.

26 posted on 02/13/2014 4:25:16 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Welfare is a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. F.D.R.)
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To: RIghtwardHo
...you’ve gotta be very careful about permitting people to not serve, etc others just because they don’t like them.

Yeah great. F*** freedom of association, and while we're at it, f*** a free country. Government should be used to force me to interact and do business with people the state demands.

Even on FR people don't have a clue.

32 posted on 02/13/2014 5:20:47 AM PST by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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