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To: Cap74

“Israel receives billions of dollars of foreign military aid per year from the U.S.”

We receive 1.5 billion dollars in aid, with lots of strings attached. For all of me, you could keep it.

” They are more than capable of both defending their country and, should they wish, inflicting crippling damage upon Iran in an offensive strike.”

We do not have delivery capability; no carriers. And one does not use nuclear warheads except in the direst of circumstances. See Heinlein’s Star Ship Trooper for an explanation, if one is needed.

“To put it lightly, I would defend my best friend no matter what if he is sucker punched in a bar. If he asked me to promise to back him up no matter what because he wants to sucker punch a smaller guy who ran his mouth a bit... that’s a different situation. “

Your analogy does not fit. Iran is not smaller. It is huge compared to Israel, and was a rival empire to both Rome and Greece. Furthermore, they are not running their mouth, they are getting ready to slaughter us and dominate a vital region with the threat of nuclear bombs. What they are is the big bruiser in the bar that’s getting ready to bust the bottom off a bottle and start cutting, and in those circumstances, a sucker punch may well be our only hope, “our” meaning both the US and Israel.

If you want to sit it out and let us take on the bruiser with the bottle, ok. Could you lend us a carrier, at least? And train our “finest air force in the world” in carrier takeoffs and landings. They don’t know how to do that. Few pilots do outside of the US Navy and Marines. To use your analogy, we may want to sucker punch Iran, but we’d need a freakin’ step ladder to get within range.


8 posted on 01/15/2014 10:47:05 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5
We do not have delivery capability; no carriers. And one does not use nuclear warheads except in the direst of circumstances.

I appreciate your response, and I fully admit my analogy was a bit of a reach. Comparing geopolitics and threat of war to the goings-on at a bar can be done well for a laugh, but it takes a better writer than I.

Your point about nuclear weapons is interesting. I believe you do have delivery systems, namely planes. Perhaps you'd know more about it than I do, but an Israeli official once spoke about 'the Samson option' regarding their strategic weapons. I highly doubt Israel would take the risks involved in building and maintaining a nuclear arsenal without developing the effective means to use them. The 'Samson' talk may well have been bluster, and understandable bluster at that. Most of Iran's belligerent talk is bluster, too. I hold no love for Iran's government, quite the opposite. They are not, however, an existential threat to Israel at the moment. The U.S. is to Iran. They know that, and their words and actions make some sense in that context.

I say that Iran is the 'smaller' guy not referring to land mass or population. Israel is a much more powerful nation in military and technological terms. Whatever limitations you wish to apply to the Israelis, and of course there are some, are also faced by the Iranians. Israel and Saudi Arabia both outspend Iran by significant margins in the defense and technological realms. Iran could not defeat Iraq in the 1980's, while Israel has repelled several combined attacks throughout its history.

Iran is not an irrational nation. Several current and former Israeli civilian and military/intelligence officials have plainly stated this, too, despite heated rhetoric from both sides. Should Iran take tangible actions that suggest a nuclear attack is possible, let alone eminent, then the game is different. As of now, Iran has not even tested a nuclear weapon.

Feel free to disagree, but my main point is in challenging the notion that the United States should be engaging in pre-emptive wars of choice whether ours or an ally's. I'm in the minority on FR, I'm sure, and it's something the U.S. has done often in its history. I see a certain hypocrisy in our dealings with the DPRK-South Korea situation versus the Iran-Israel situation. The DPRK has issued not only crazy verbal threats, but lethal direct military actions including downing an airliner and attempting to assassinate the ROK president. They've developed, tested and threatened to use nuclear weapons. Somehow Iran is touted as a greater threat then the DPRK. Israel and Saudi Arabia, Iran's enemies, have a lot of money and influence in DC...

10 posted on 01/16/2014 12:18:49 AM PST by Cap74 (You can disagree with me. You can attack me. Do not lie to me.)
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To: Eleutheria5
We receive 1.5 billion dollars in aid, with lots of strings attached. For all of me, you could keep it.

$1.5 billion is the increase in this year's aid bringing the total to $4.1 billion.

12 posted on 01/16/2014 6:10:56 AM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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