[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

-— Can you tell me more about the church’s claim to be “pillar and foundation of truth”? -—

It’s in the Bible.

Jesus also said, “if he won’t listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.”

This passage is loaded with significance.

First, we know that Christ had established a visible church during His life on earth. Moreover, His Church must teach with His authority, otherwise It could contradict Him.

Finally, we also know that “the gates of hell” will not prevail against His Church, so Christ’s visible Church must still exist.

[HiTech RedNeck]

OK, follow you so far.

I think when it got tied to a denomination the usefulness of the claim went to hades. Because that was splitting what never should have been split. If we are going to consider it now, we would consider the church “collectively” and that means that Baptists have part of the picture, Catholics have part of the picture, Orthodox have part of the picture, etc. Which is exactly what I see.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Anyhow. The “Catholic” part of the question is not new. There was once one unified church and then there was the Orthodox/Catholic schism. Each presumed its piece had that sole privilege, rather than conceding that the split would compromise the ability to practically do things this church could have done. This doesn’t mean the “gates of hell” has prevailed against the church as a whole. It just means it has earthly troubles. It WILL reunite, if only in heaven.

Now with the Protestants and their Bible connection to the ancient church’s witness arises another issue. I hold the Bible connection as valid and able to carry the blessed salvational witness to new Christians. Others obviously disagree.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Anyhow, splits are Bad Things.

I might even have the nerve of viewing the Protestant revolution as God’s way of providing the path to undo the split! It was easy to make catcalls about Protestants when they first appeared. No more.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

Finally, we also know that “the gates of hell” will not prevail against His Church, so Christ’s visible Church must still exist.

Christ's Church was not just Peter, it was all of the disciples.

And besides, Peter never went to Rome anyway, Paul never mentions him there, but that is another discussion.