Posted on 12/28/2013 7:27:24 AM PST by Timber Rattler
Last month, three women became the first of their sex to graduate from the Marine Corps’ famously grueling Advanced Infantry Training Course. The Marine Corps was asking a simple question by running small groups through these courses in experimental test batches, two to five women at a time: Can the female body withstand the rigors of infantry training? The answer, these women showed, is that it can.
So far much of the debate surrounding integration has focused on the physical capabilities of women, as if this were the singular issue. Admittedly the strain of infantry training, or even combat, is relatively easier for a 6-foot tall, 180-pound man, but there are women fit enough to survive these punishing courses. As for combat, well, if we’ve proved anything over the last decade of war, it’s that women can sustain its rigors.
So if the barrier to integrating women into the infantry isn’t a physical one then what is it?
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
Now The Fleet? That's where all the fun of being in the grunts really begins.
None of the believers have ever been punched in the face - figuratively OR literally. If they ever had they wouldn’t subscribe to such silly fantasies.
But they do subscribe. Ten minute fight scenes where they leap from third-story windows and land on their feet. Where they routinely do cartwheels over the heads of their opponents. Where they fire hundreds of rounds (from a single magazine) and emerge (victorious of course!) with only a smudge on their cheek.
This little social experiment is not going to end well...
BUD/S presupposes that entrants are in tip top physical condition. Trainees are pushed to and beyond their limits of physical and mental endurance. Candidates can voluntarily DOR (Drop on Request) at any time by ringing the bell or they can be dropped for lack of progress. Injuries result in setback until healed and the candidate can join another class. The last week before graduation is aptly termed “Hell Week”. Trainees are lucky to get more than four hours’ sleep during this week. Make it through this week and you graduate from Phase 1.
Phase 2 is U/W Swimmer. You do a lot of swimming both in the pool and in the ocean. More people get dropped here; either DOR or for lack of progress.
Phase 3 is Land Warfare held at San Clemente Island. Exercises are done with live fire after multiple dry runs. Screw up here and you'll be dropped, but there are few DORs and some admin drops.
Bottom line: for a class of 100 prime physical specimens, only 10 or less will make it through to the end of Phase 3. Even then, the newly graduated SEAL still has to prove himself on an operational team deployment. While on deployment with his team, the new member is still probationary and he can be dropped from SEAL Team if his team mates feel he is not up to the job.
As a small woman, I always laugh at those movies. Not only does the 90-pound female take down the big bad male, she does it in evening dress and 4-inch heels! Then, she cleverly blends back into the upscale cocktail party, not even breathing hard, her make-up intact and not a hair out of place after running through a dirty cellar and up or down four flights of stairs. Sometimes, she even jumps from one rooftop to another, all the while killing bad guys with unerring aim while her attackers/victims always miss.
Comic books. Who would take that seriously?
I know former SF men. ALL of them have permanent musculoskeletal injuries and look 10 years older than they really are. I also know some young women who went through basic NG training. Most had disturbances of their menstrual cycles, problems with muscle injuries and instances of unwarranted sexual abuse, if not battery. And that was just for a Basic Training for the National Guard!
I watched a couple of extended reports on “The History Channel” about Ranger training and also Air Force Para-Rescue training. This was before that channel turned into “tattooed men around Las Vegas”.
After watching there was no question in my mind that I could never have passed any of them. Interestingly, I was probably a better athlete than the majority of them. I still hold records set in the 1960s and early 1970s in high school and college.
I am a weak swimmer. I have to get at least 9 hours of sleep or I am worthless. I never could run more than 120 yards before getting totally exhausted. I always had a bad habit of losing my temper and refusing to do something I did not like.
Here is another truth, in combat your team is only as strong as your weakest member. One weak link in that team brings the whole teams abilities down to that level. Many times in a combat situation it comes down to a few very basic truths. Do you have the physical and mental strength to make something happen or do you lay down and die. Do you accomplish your assigned duties or do you fail and let your friends around you die.
Here are is how it works with training. Combat is all about training and everything you do in training is harder to accomplish in combat. In a combat situation you will do what you have been taught to do in training. You train like you fight and you fight like you train. The absolute truth in this is if a person is unable to do something in training then they will be unable to do it in combat and they and others around them will die.
I am not anti woman and I have no wish to put artificial barriers in the way of a woman's advancement but I know how it is in combat. I am not willing to sacrifice the lives of great soldiers by dropping the standards and training requirements so women can pass just to make a Politically Correct point.
Men and women are different. Men are much better at doing some things and women are much better at doing other things. We are not biologically the same. This is not a case of who is better or worse it is just realizing that we are different and those differences are limiting in some situations.
“As for combat, well, if we’ve proved anything over the last decade of war, it’s that women can sustain its rigors.”
Really? You send a few females on patrol so that you can interrogate Muslim females, and you call that combat? Get a grip. The heavy-duty fighting was well past finished.
“Women have performed well in the type of combat experienced in Iraq and in parts of Afghanistan, but they were not infantry soldiers and were not subject to the physical demands of long term infantry”
Brief HumVee sweeps outside the wire of a fortified FOB do not meet the definition of sustained infantry operations. More like combat tourist.
Leave it up to the fantasyland garbage coming out of Follywood. I recently finished watching a six-part series (each about 50 minutes) on YouTube that followed a class from start to graduation.
The class started out with 114. After five weeks of pre-training they were down to 83.
About six months later the graduation class consisted of 25.
While watching the series I tried to imagine a female making it to the end.
It is surprising, even here on Free Republic, how many ex military will defend women in combat roles. My guess that small minority are probably members of the Log Cabin Republicans.
One brutal approach: let a whole bunch of women through the training, put them all on the same group, and send them all on a real SEAL mission. If any survive the mission, and the mission is a success, then they get to call themselves SEALs.
I know what you’re saying and agree that it would be brutal. But chivalry would always prevent me from doing it. I would be called sexist. So, I’d reply, “we don’t leave anyone behind. And they would be behind before they started.” Whereupon, I’d receive a letter of reprimand to the permanent file and need to plan for exiting uniformed service.
My understanding is that SEAL graduates don’t get their qualification badges (Gold Tridents) until after they’ve actually deployed for a time with an active SEAL Team. Making it through BUD/S and SEAL Infantry Training, difficult as that may be, is not the end of it for an aspiring SEAL-candidate.
A SEAL has to complete his first deployment with a team before he’s fully vested as a SEAL. He does get his trident on completion of Phase 3 training, but it isn’t permanent until after his first operational team deployment.
It’s important to impose good feelings on the simple facts of life. It’s something an overpopulated society of idiots deserve.
Thanks for the correction... Master Chief, right?
I plead guilty to Master Chief Gunner’s Mate (Surface Warfare). I loved working with SEALs in Coronado as their boat support. Greatest friends in the world, but don’t get them mad at you. Today’s SWCCs and SEALs have a symbiotic relationship. SWCCs provide the transport for SEAL insertions and fire support for a hot egress by the SEALs.
Couldn’t agree more. We used to have military veterans serving in the White House, the Senate and the House. There was a time we called CEOs “captains of industry”.
Now, the wars are fought by the disposable underclass: black, white, Latin, and others. The elites push the buttons and 4,000 troops are blown up. Let the elites share the pain.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.