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To: Timedrifter
the EU pact would mean massive shutdowns of industry since the Ukrainian manufactures could never compete with German, Dutch, and even French industries.

Ukrainian agriculture will be also unable to compete with far more advanced farmers of Poland, Hungary, and other neighboring countries. This could be corrected by investments, but who is going to invest in conditions of overproduction?

I believe those in Ukraine who advocate for EU are simply planning to cross the border to wealthier countries before the ink has dried on the agreement. But will they be allowed to do that?

I can understand, though, that people are desperate for a change, so they are grasping at straws. However neither they, nor their country, are needed in EU. This is why the Ukrainian government is considering ties with Russia - they are better matched, and they have mutual interests.

17 posted on 12/15/2013 5:53:41 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard
I can understand, though, that people are desperate for a change, so they are grasping at straws. However neither they, nor their country, are needed in EU. This is why the Ukrainian government is considering ties with Russia - they are better matched, and they have mutual interests.

In other words, if only these people "grasping at straws" could be made to understand that Vladi knows what's best for them . . . to make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs, right?

19 posted on 12/15/2013 5:58:42 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Greysard

but who is going to invest in conditions of overproduction?

China buys 5 percent of Ukraine’s land
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/Blog/2013/09/23/China-buys-5-percent-of-Ukraines-land/5941379959745/


21 posted on 12/15/2013 6:02:51 PM PST by tlozo
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To: Greysard

I agree with you. Ukraine mainly suffers from a management and corruption problem. They have tremendous potential as a country, but never seem to achieve it.

You did see a similar thing in Poland, a lot of Poles advocated for the EU as a jumping platform to immigrate to Britain and France. Same for Bulgarians and Romanians. These are people who live in countries that haven’t done well economically for a long time, and joining the EU means limitless travel to richer member states where they can undercut native workers a lot of the time (no slant on them, they do what they have to for their families). Although this is just a trade deal for now, we all know its a stepping stone to full-fledged membership and that all-important open-border pass.
It does surprise me that more of Ukraine’s leaders aren’t for the EU deal. If it did turn into membership, they might reap similar benefits to Mexico’s political establishment when they started flooding across our borders and sending money back home.

Ukraine should tread carefully when forging trade agreements with anyone, careful to keep their sovereignty intact. Nothing is worse than when your country is vulnerable to the whims of people you have no control over. Putin clearly already has leverage over Ukraine because of the gas lines, so I would be cautious of any kind of ‘Eurasian Trade Bloc’ deals that might expand that influence.

You are definitely seeing an east-west divide in Ukraine on this, and it is centered around economic and cultural differences between the geographical areas. It’s understandable that the easterners are worried about this. They will likely lose their Russian-linked livelihoods should Ukraine take the EU deal. I would question becoming involved in an organization in which many member states want out right now.
They burned EU flags across Hungary recently, mainly a sign of the Jobbik rise. Anti-EU sentiment is also at an all-time high in the UK, and the Netherlands seems to be angling to give an anti-EU party a large share of the vote in the next election.

Personally, I can see the whole China-Japan showdown coming to a head before this thing sorts itself out.


24 posted on 12/15/2013 6:12:29 PM PST by Viennacon
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