oh go ahead and turn it down, no guts no glory...
Posted on 12/15/2013 3:31:09 PM PST by Hojczyk
If the Machinists union and Boeing could agree to a contract deal, Washington state would secure decades of work fabricating the 777X airliner’s advanced wing and assembling the jet here. Yet the union is divided and in turmoil over what the company calls its best and final offer.
Two distinct, passionate arguments boiled up among the 31,000 local Machinists after their leaders Thursday rejected the revised offer.
One vocal faction, including the local leadership, is dug in, unwilling to give up its hard-won gains from the past by making concessions on pay and benefits.
Another group, including officials from the national headquarters, fears massive job losses within a decade and is ready to endorse the eight-year contract extension to ensure future work.
“People are really looking at this as a make-or-break situation,” said Adam Subitch, 27, a painter on the 777 line in Everett with nearly seven years at Boeing. “This is our livelihood we are talking about. ... People are scared.”
Subitch has his first baby on the way and said that to protect his career and his nascent family’s future, he wants the opportunity to vote yes on the rejected offer.
“A lot of people are angry,” said Subitch. “A lot of us would appreciate the chance to choose our own future.”
On the other end of the age and experience spectrum is Wilson Ferguson, 58, who’s been working at Boeing almost since Subitch was born. The 26-year company veteran, who is president of the union’s Local A and works as a 737 delivery mechanic at Boeing Field, led a militant rally a month ago calling for a no vote on Boeing’s first 777X contract offer. Union members rejected that contract by 2 to 1.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.com ...
Thanks for a voice of reason! I mean it. Kind of rare around here when it comes to anything about unions.
And you know this how?? Crystal ball?? "If" that happens, THEN is the time to take action.
"Lotta people on this forum worship the managers.
And there are some who worhship unions. Apparently you are one of that subset.
".....but 30 year Engineers and technical workers are getting subjected to takebacks.
Guess what. Things have changed. Those engineers and technical workers are no longer just competing against other Americans or Western Europeans.
"And the IAM people aren't idiots. They've seen this before: the company threatens to move all the work elsewhere.
Guess what, that "is" going to happen.
"Right. That should work real well. Let's move the factory to South Succotash, hire the locals who have zero experience, and everything will just go ducky building a certificated Part 25 airplane."
Once upon a time, places like the Seattle area had a serious educational and training advantage. That is no longer true. Today, the folks in South Succotash are just as well or better trained than the Washington bunch.
"The company is just playing hardball and so is the IAM."
Perhaps they should try something else....like cooperation.
(snip)
The state of Alabama this week submitted an incentive package in an attempt to woo the production of Boeing's 777X. The world's largest airplane maker began looking for a new production site when negotiations broke down with the labor union at its current plant in Everett, Wash.
Alabama is among several states looking to show Boeing how much its planes and potentially 8,500 high-paying jobs would be appreciated outside of Washington state.
How much appreciation? The particulars of Alabama's incentive package haven't been disclosed, but lawmakers say it will compete with any offer on the table. Some of the other offers top $1 billion in tax breaks, facilities and infrastructure.
That's a lot of appreciation.
Suddenly, the labor union in Washington is willing to negotiate. Suddenly, the unmoving stand on principles isn't so unmoving after all. Suddenly, the union bosses see the value in what they might be about to lose.
(Airbus is presently building a billion dollar plant in Mobile to make their A-320 passenger planes here.)
Everyone in this state is worried about this. On the one hand, I am not a big fan of unions and feel like they crapped in their nest one too many times. On the other hand, as a resident of WA I know what losing Boeing will do to this state and it would be an economic catastrophe.
I believe the union members should have a right to vote up or down and let them (and us) live with the consequences. If I were Boeing I would not give an inch.
Wrong on pretty much everything Warty.
And lots of us have no interest in competing with Asia or even Western Europe. And since we vote...eventually we get what we want.
It isn’t a corporate tyrannocracy yet. Yet.
Even in a “republic”, that’s the way it works.
It is a game in the Boeing Machinist’s Union to see just how one can push the envelope of unproductively without getting reprimanded or fired.
oh go ahead and turn it down, no guts no glory...
I know what you mean. The company then offered very generous education benefits. I took advantage of it and after 5 years of night school (hard work) earned my degree, got out of the union environment and actually went into management... the hardest damn jobs I ever had --- but well worth it.
You’re right. I have just about zero sympathy for any union. I grew up in Pittsburgh in the 70s and watched unions destroy the steel industry there. Went to school with a lot of guys who talked big about how much their dad’s and uncles made, said I was a fool for going to college ingress of into the mills...
I was amazed they didn’t move to a Sunbelt city like Dallas or Atlanta.
Probably not enough graft & corruption offered...just my guess...
Because it worked so well for the Detroilet auto unions.
Seattle, meet Detroit. (and thank a big union for your prosperity)/sarc
Because it worked so well for the Detroilet auto unions.
Seattle, meet Detroit. (and thank a big union for your prosperity)/sarc
Huh?
Good analogy.
Because commercial airliners are so complex, with very high barriers to entry, Boeing has had a pretty easy road only having to compete with the Euros.
Otherwise there would be a half dozen non-union foreign brands building airplanes in Southern states.
That’s what I understand from talking with a former Boeing plant worker.
The difference was second shift we all new hires with less than 3 years on the job. First shift all were over 15 years on the job. Time on job was the problem.
The difference was about $120,000 in 2 month's of production.
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