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To: kabar

Let me give you the reverse. The government says I cannot sell you my gun because it passed a law. That’s not liberty. Free trade (keep in mind that the US of A was set up as a giant free trade zone, hence the Commerce Clause) means I get to sell whatever I want and I get to buy whatever I want. That’s liberty.

Now comes my neighbor and he’s selling his lawnmower. It is a good price and he takes $25 American for it. That’s free trade. Who is richer or more powerful or anything else doesn’t matter. That trade is completed. He got what he wanted and I got what I wanted.

There is no trade deficit. He never has to buy a thing from me and I am still at liberty. Nothing has been lost.

You’re confusing the economic prosperity of moving away from low level manufacturing to higher level manufacturing and invention. Would you rather be making the widget or getting all the royalties from it?

We don’t farm anymore either and that’s a sign of prosperity. At the turn of the last century 40% of employment was on farms now it’s down to 3% and no one is starving. That’s an improvement. Do you see it now?

BTW my neighbor is a Red Chinese. ;-]


202 posted on 12/13/2013 10:59:38 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
Let me give you the reverse. The government says I cannot sell you my gun because it passed a law. That’s not liberty. Free trade (keep in mind that the US of A was set up as a giant free trade zone, hence the Commerce Clause) means I get to sell whatever I want and I get to buy whatever I want. That’s liberty.

Now comes my neighbor and he’s selling his lawnmower. It is a good price and he takes $25 American for it. That’s free trade. Who is richer or more powerful or anything else doesn’t matter. That trade is completed. He got what he wanted and I got what I wanted.

Does "liberty" extend to selling heroin, crack cocaine, etc to anyone who will buy them? Is that free trade? Surely you don't advocate some reversion back to a Hobbesian state of nature where government is non-existent? Government does have a role in trade, even free trade.

You’re confusing the economic prosperity of moving away from low level manufacturing to higher level manufacturing and invention.

I never mentioned manufacturing or moving from one level to another?

Would you rather be making the widget or getting all the royalties from it?

Government certainly favors the latter. It produces nothing but gets the "royalties" aka taxes from it.

We don’t farm anymore either and that’s a sign of prosperity. At the turn of the last century 40% of employment was on farms now it’s down to 3% and no one is starving. That’s an improvement. Do you see it now?

You must be confusing me with someone else on this thread. I am not against technological improvements that increase productivity and reduces labor costs.

263 posted on 12/13/2013 12:33:26 PM PST by kabar
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To: 1010RD
BTW my neighbor is a Red Chinese. ;-

BTW, I have visited the PRC and toured some of their industrial parks that have factories of US based companies. They have top of the line technology, the latest in automation, and a well educated labor force that works for a fraction of US workers. It is very difficult to compete under such circumstances.

264 posted on 12/13/2013 12:38:05 PM PST by kabar
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To: 1010RD
You’re confusing the economic prosperity of moving away from low level manufacturing to higher level manufacturing and invention. Would you rather be making the widget or getting all the royalties from it?

We don’t farm anymore either and that’s a sign of prosperity. At the turn of the last century 40% of employment was on farms now it’s down to 3% and no one is starving. That’s an improvement. Do you see it now?

I can partially agree with that, but, there is a big problem in that likely as not, the Chinese are going to steal your invention and sell it all over the world -- if you depend on exports or licensing to export markets to any degree, you are in trouble. (Been there, done that.) Attend the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show if you have any doubt, although these days, there's no shortage of Asians stealing from other Asians. :-)

A huge problem in the U.S., today, is the difficulty of a company with a good idea getting "over the hump", so to speak. That is, if one is really small, you can more or less fly under the radar, and if big, can participate in crony capitalism, but unless you have a truly "hot" idea, like FaceBook or YouTube, and especially for new manufacturers, that middle ground is tough, tough territory to succeed in.

Also, as has been pointed out, we farm like crazy today. We just don't need a lot of people to do it -- which is true in many other areas as well. Even if a lot of manufacturing of "widgets" came back to the U.S., it'd be highly automated and relatively few jobs would be created. So, a different solution is needed.

382 posted on 12/15/2013 2:08:06 AM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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