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To: PapaNew

Jesus died to save a man’s soul, not his body.

You believe that your position, based on the scripture as you understand it is proper, and that is fine.

As was pointed out in a previous post, about one Kenneth McDuff, who was sentenced to death, had his sentence commuted to life, and was subsequently released from custody. He then proceeded to kill again. Were the women he killed after his release less important then hMcDuff’s life? You are appearing to give credence to that thought.

You argue that he should never be released from custody. How can one be so sure that another like minded individual to the judge who ordered McDuff’s release would not release others who then go on to kill again. His death as punishment for his crime(s) would prevent this.

As I have said and will say again, the death penalty is about punishment and the security of the liberty of all society. Yet you seem to not want to discuss the security of the liberty of others. Only this idea that the death penalty is immoral. I say that your position is immoral because you fail to punish evil doers, and have no regard for the safety of liberty for others. Your craven deference to the lives of these killers is immoral.

My argument is not with Jesus, it is with you. Jesus saved his soul...his body remains an earthly item and should be disposed of properly.


36 posted on 11/16/2013 4:52:52 AM PST by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: Ouderkirk
OK, so we move our discussion from 1) punishment to 2) protection of the citizens as justification for the death penalty. The issue is whether it is right to kill a prisoner out of fear of his killing again becasue a broken penal system doesn't keep him separated from society. The answer is a broken government-run penal system doesn't justify killing its prisoners.

I've argued several times on this thread that the #1 role of government and the penal system is to protect its citizens from those who would harm their life and liberty. I don't know of any state where it is thought the penal system isn't broken. But IMO, beginning at the state level, it is up to the people of the state to take action against such failure and initiate proposals and amend state constitutions that demand safety from convicted criminals that cannot be thwarted by wrong-headed judges. A call for a complete overhaul of the barbaric and medieval penal system would be in order. How about holding judges accountable for irresponsible decisions allowing unverified/obviously dangerous criminal back into society? MAKE POLITICIANS AND JUDGES ACCOUNTABLE.

Tough job? Yes. Tougher that just killing the criminal instead? Yes. Guaranteed perfection? No, nothing is, but you would have a great deal more of both safety and justice than you do now.

Putting the inherent unjustness and unrighteousness of the death penalty aside, has the death penalty proven to create a safer society where dangerous criminals are not loosed upon society? Hardly. In fact I believe that advancing and holding to the misguided notion that society will be safer if we kill dangerous criminals has contributed to delaying the very reforms needed in the penal system. Its easier to kill the guy than to reform the governmental system. Not an unheard-of government solution.

The #1 job and goal of government is to keep others from wrongfully interefering with an individual's life and liberties. The job of implementing need reforms in the penal system to meet that goal is a tough jobs. But failure to do so does not justify killing it prisoners however more expedient it would be.

Practically speaking, do I think this can happen? Maybe in some cases in certain states where its citizenry and leadership are vitally engaged. But overall, I think seeing these things actually proposed and implemented would be fairly miraculous. The bottom line here is it is up to the American people and the citizens of each state - they run the show. Morality will RARELY come from politicians - only from the citizenry. If our citizenry is unwilling to take on these difficult tasks and needed reforms, you may decide it is better to kill the prisoner, but that is a solution of convenience not justice.

Nevertheless, sooner or later, justice and righteous will prevail on the earth. If not now, then when Jesus Christ Himself rules the world for 1000 years from Jerusalem. I believe we'll see these very types of things implemented. What about in the meantime? Whatever is done, a convenient solution is not necessarily a just solution. And practically speaking, leaving the issue of justice aside, I believe overall, the death penalty does more harm than good and does NOT create nor has it created a safer society.

37 posted on 11/16/2013 9:33:52 AM PST by PapaNew
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