Posted on 11/07/2013 5:34:51 AM PST by Uncle Chip
The family of 13-year-old Andy Lopez has filed a lawsuit in federal court over the fatal shooting of their son, claiming that Sonoma County Sheriff's deputy Erick Gelhaus has a history of reckless acts and "shot without provocation or cause."....
At a Monday press conference... attorney Arnoldo Casillas declared the Santa Rosa Police Department's investigation into the shooting would be "a whitewash" .....
According to Casillas, only three seconds elapsed between the moment one of the deputies called for the boy to drop the gun and the moment Gelhaus began firing.
Casillas spoke to reporters about the autopsy, which bears out witnesses' statements that Deputy Gelhaus continued to fire his gun after Lopez had fallen to the ground.
A bullet that entered Lopez's right buttock, Casillas explained, traveled up into the boy's torso, proving that the shot was fired when Lopez was horizontal.
The attorney also detailed the initial shot that hit and felled Lopez, which entered his body above his right nipple and traveled toward his left shoulder. "It went through his heart. It killed him," Casillas said.
Such a trajectory would appear to show that Lopez had only turned halfway to face Gelhaus by the time the first fatal shot was fired—in essence, that Lopez had no chance to see who was calling to him before he was struck with bullets.
Gelhaus has stated that he cannot remember if he identified himself as law enforcement when he called for Lopez to drop his gun....
Currently, investigations in officer-related shootings in Sonoma County call for the Santa Rosa Police Department to investigate the sheriff's department, and vice-versa....
(Excerpt) Read more at bohemian.com ...
Until that happens, high-paid attorneys will have to ask the hard questions of Gelhaus.
"We will ask him, 'What the hell were you thinking?'" said Casillas on Monday. "'This is a 13-year-old boy. He is five-foot-four. He is 140 pounds. . . . What did you expect him to do when you called out, if not turn around and look at you?'"
Not enough info in the linked story to make a call here, at least for me.
Was the cop just walking by, saw a kid playing w/a toy gun in his yard, told him to drop it and fire? Was he on a robbery call? Who knows.
Based on what’s reported, I don’t see a prob w/the cop firing if he orders to drop and the kid begins to turn. He could’ve been turning to fire. The cop may not have known immediately that he hit the kid on the first shot and thought the kid was dropping to minimize target size, hence, the ass shot.
Citizen review board seems like a nice idea though. I agree w/the constitutional concept of not having a standing military, which is what our police force seem to have effectively become.
“Was the cop just walking by, saw a kid playing w/a toy gun in his yard, told him to drop it and fire? Was he on a robbery call? Who knows.”
You need to educate yourself on this story.
“Based on what’s reported, I don’t see a prob w/the cop firing if he orders to drop and the kid begins to turn.”
You are effed up. According to your “assessment” any cop has the right to shoot someone they think might be turning on him even though he called out to him.
I can’t believe you posted that.
Translation: He almost certainly did not identify himself as a law enforcement officer..
“You need to educate yourself on this story.”
I read the story and indicated my opinion is based solely on what’s in it. I wasn’t interested in trying to hunt down police reports and court records because I’ve done so in the past and too often found that when critical details were left out of a story (like how the cop and kid came to meet each other) they were left out for a reason - to mislead.
I stand by my opinion on the first shot. Turning w/a weapon in your hand points it in the cops direction. I don’t believe the rule is that cops have to wait for a round to go off.
Holding a weapon is not enough to fire. Bringing it to bear is.
Again, w/no other info, I would’ve fired myself in that situation, but I’m not a cop.
So then I guess you missed this part:
Such a trajectory would appear to show that Lopez had only turned halfway to face Gelhaus by the time the first fatal shot was fired—in essence, that Lopez had no chance to see who was calling to him before he was struck with bullets.
“So then I guess you missed this part:”
No, I didn’t.
Had the kid began to turn to me w/weapon in hand, I would’ve fired.
Note, the article doesn’t say how FAST he turned. Was he slowly turning, putting his hands up as in “I surrender” or did he spin with weapon forward as in “Your gone sucka”.
Which is why I said:
“Not enough info in the linked story to make a call here, at least for me.”
What would you do?
A bullet that entered Lopez's right buttock, Casillas explained, traveled up into the boy's torso, proving that the shot was fired when Lopez was horizontal.
What does that say to you???
“What does that say to you???”
Maybe it’s you who’s not reading. From my post:
“The cop may not have known immediately that he hit the kid on the first shot and thought the kid was dropping to minimize target size, hence, the ass shot.”
I’ve only fired at a range. When I do, vision down the barrel is obscured from the smoke, though I can see obvious movement. I imagine that if I were firing at someone, just seeing a body drop would not make me think the conflict was over, for the reason I indicate in my first post.
If he has an "ass shot" then which way is the kid facing as his body is lying horizontal on the ground as the deputy is pumping additional shots into him???
And you think that is a threat and justifiable???
While firing, it’d be easy to see someone drop, not so easy to see which way they’re facing.
Smaller target, obscured by smoke, short time frame.
Try it sometime and you’ll know what I’m talking about.
So the double tap is out now and the emptying of the clip is now vogue.
“Based on what’s reported, I don’t see a prob w/the cop firing if he orders to drop and the kid begins to turn.”
The implication is that if you were on your own property holding a weapon and an unknown someone came up behind you and ordered you to drop the weapon, you’d do so without reflexively turning to see who was giving the order.
Is that what you’d really do?
What if what you were holding wasn’t really a weapon as far as you were concerned, so you couldn’t drop “the weapon”?
“double tap is now out”
If you don’t know you hit, I can imagine firing more.
Again, I don’t think there’s enough info in the story to surely side with either party.
However, once firing begins, you can conclude that it doesn’t cease until the perceived conflict is over.
Whether the cop was justified or not, I really have no idea.
“The implication is that if you were on your own property holding a weapon”
I don’t march around my property w/weapon in hand like a kid playing soldier. If I did do such a ridiculous thing and heard someone say to drop it, I’d stop and say “who’s there and why are you here?”
If the one asking had wanted to shoot me, they could’ve done so w/o warning.
So speaking, instead of turning w/weapon in hand, would be the option I choose.
p.s., I have never “turned reflexively” in my life.
The only “reflexive” reaction I’ve experienced to loud words or noises is more of a cringe.
The turning comes later, and quite consciously.
And by SRPD and deputy Gelhaus rules if you flinched as much as your head to say that to him you could be perceived as a threat and and shot multiple times until you stopped moving for failing to immediately do what the deputy told you.
Are you okay with that???
Baloney --
Not baloney and actually true medically.
The synchronized motor control required to turn is not possible in a reflex.
When Doc taps your knee it kicks out in reflex. If you slap him for it, it’s a conscious decision, even if made quickly.
“And by SRPD and deputy Gelhaus rules if you flinched ..”
NOT what the story said. If the story was changed as you describe above, I would agree that the cop is at fault.
That doesn’t change the fact that the story, as given, doesn’t have enough info to place blame.
And you never did answer my question of what would you do.
So what would you do if YOU asked someone to drop their weapon and they turned to face you w/weapon in hand?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.