Posted on 10/17/2013 6:06:17 AM PDT by thackney
As a technology buff I find this article interesting however I don’t see this in a residential neighborhood. First cities would balk at such equipment that could endanger not only your house but the surrounding houses and insurance companies would not want to have the risk and would object too.
But if you could, I would see this as propane installer told me that you will never see a propane gas furnace in the basement of a home because of the safety equipment required.
Therefore if you could do this you will need a approved spark proof ventilation system, a redundant fire and gas detector alarm setup, a set of spark proof tools and an approved fire suppression equipment . And I expect the state to require you to be a licensed Master Gas Fitter for you to use and maintain all of it..
Also It wouldn’t be surprising that you might need a much larger gas line to the house and a commercial gas meter.
Lastly few people would want to deal with the trouble of filling the car a couple of times a week because of the danger of not only fire but of cryogenic burns and the danger of asphyxiation.
[Then to every neighborhood has the noisy worry wart neighbor who will call 911 every time they might - maybe smelled a wiff of gas and report you.]
....maybe I’m wrong but there are potential problems with this .
Dad got 55 or so miles to the gallon out of his diesels.
The TDI I don’t recall, but it was significantly less after it ate the deer.
He still mentions the diesel Rabbit he had with a bit of a sigh once in awhile.
Looking into my old log book for the ‘96 Jetta, I got the highest running pure highway @28MPG, the average was about 22.
Except for the day spent doing nothing but city driving, that was around 12 or 14.
Nonsense, this isn't new. CNG vehicles have been driven on our roads for decades. Honda has sold a CNG Civic in the US since 1996. The actually have a higher safety history than gasoline vehicles.
But if you could, I would see this as propane installer told me that you will never see a propane gas furnace in the basement of a home because of the safety equipment required. Therefore if you could do this you will need a approved spark proof ventilation system, a redundant fire and gas detector alarm setup, a set of spark proof tools and an approved fire suppression equipment .
You made a good comparison. None of that equipment is needed for either system. Just because it is new to you doesn't make in unproven and unsafe technology.
Also It wouldn’t be surprising that you might need a much larger gas line to the house and a commercial gas meter.
No, the home fill units are slow fill. The flow rate is not significant compared to your furnace and stove.
Lastly few people would want to deal with the trouble of filling the car a couple of times a week because of the danger of not only fire but of cryogenic burns and the danger of asphyxiation.
You are still imagining dangers that do not reasonably exist.
My 2007 GMC 1500 does about that. It seems to me that the new EPA gas has less btu equivalent than it used to especially with alcohol in it. Wonder what some of these new vehicles would do with some good ole leaded gas.
Cruise on over to the local airport, grab some 100LL, and let us know....
I imagine they took the lead out and put alcohol in it now.
No not at all.
Airplane guys don’t put up with that sh!t.
When you’re flying it’s gotta work...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100LL#100LL_.28blue.29
So what? My ‘87 T-Bird goes about 450 miles on a tank.
Really, you think CNG is more dangerous than gas, or any more likely to blow up? I had a friend whose father had a pickup that ran off of Propane and gasoline. You changed tanks by means of a switch mounted on the dash board. It worked great, no problems what so ever. I see no difference between that and a CNG/gasoline fueled vehicle except CNG is most likely much cheaper than propane. I think this is great and much more viable as an alternative fuel than hybrid/electric cars, especially if they put in fueling stations in most areas.
Your anxious student,
Mr. Lucky
Home refueling compressors have been installed in California and other locations for 8 years at least. It isn't new. Granted that doesn't mean a city may add needless code requirements; that wouldn't be a first.
The flow rate is not significant compared to your furnace and stove. would need to research that because most homes now only have 1/2 PSI systems-so compressing 30 gallons of LNG could be a large increase in demand.
It isn't LNG, it is CNG. The fill rate is slow, overnight, not like a commercial unit. 1.2 standard cubic meters per hour or 0.59 cubic feet per minute (atmospheric pressure).
http://www.brcfuelmaker.it/phill-domestico-prodotto-brc-fuel-maker.aspx
I disagree these are common problems for people who handle this kind of fuels...
I've been a design engineer working commercial and industrial facilities with compressed natural gas and other petroleum and petrochemical facilities for a few decades. This isn't new and untested technology.
Limits of flow rates are based upon how much pressure drop a system can handle. Maximum for low pressure gas often would be considered 1" H2O or 0.036 psi for 100 feet or so. This allows 147,000 BTU/Hr. Within a couple percentage points, that is 147 standard cubic feet of natural gas.
See table A3.4 page A-6:
http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/oregon/08_residential/PDFs/Appendix%20A_Sizing%20and%20Capacities%20of%20Gas%20Piping.pdf
These units have been installed at homes without any upgrades to the home supply system for years. They are not commercial grade units; these are slow flow that fill overnight.
No. The critical temperature of methane is -82.7°C or -116.9°F. No amount of pressure will liquefy methane above that temperature. At atmospheric pressures, it needs to be cooled to -260°F.
I still don’t know where you are going to find all the room to get a spare tire in the engine compartment.
Are we going to raise the hood 8” or so?
Stretch the nose and drop it between the engine and firewall? Reverse tilt hood?
What about cooking the spare at 200*F for years till you need it?
I have seen the PCM’s behind the kick panel, under the dash and recessed into the firewall.
A late 80’s-early2K Ford PCM is about 10”x6”x2.” I doubt that the later ones have grown that much.
Sorry, forgot the links:
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/Encyclopedia.asp?GasID=41
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/liquids/critical.html
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.