[Focault's Pendulum]

An interesting read in terms of where we may be heading.

[MUDDOG]

I think the biggest myth is that single-payer would be more fair.

In fact, single-payer would lead to good care being available only to the few, with crappy care for everybody else.

[originalbuckeye]

I worked in the NHS in Britain in the 80’s. You are required to go to ‘The Surgery” (clinic) in your neighborhood. You take whatever doctor is there at the time and you wait to see him like the walk-in clinics here. You cannot request a specialist; your doctor will refer you if he wants to. He will be fined if he refers too many patients to specialists. You will wait months for any surgical procedures. You will wait for any special treatments. In the 80’s, in this country, we were able to have a Pap smear per year on insurance. Now the Gov’t here has dictated that a woman may get a Pap smear every 3 years between 18-49. One Pap smear every 5 years between 49-65 years. After 65, you can only get a Pap smear if you have ‘symptoms’. Trust me, by the time you have symptoms, the cancer is fairly advanced and you will likely not survive. But once you are over 65, you aren't paying into the system anymore so the Gov’t no longer cares if you survive. And once it is single payer in this country, all those working will be forking over 10% of their family income in Fed taxes. Then the Gov’t decides who will get care. Single payer is a disaster. Britain and France are selling some of their hospitals back to private physician groups as they cannot afford to keep them running. People who can afford private health insurance in those countries buy it. I am afraid that Obama will not let private medicine be practiced in this country, only Gov’t health care. There isn't private medical care in Canada; that's why so many Canadians come here and pay for medical care. Private medical care isn't fair to those who cannot afford private insurance, and ‘fairness’ is supposedly the goal, isn't it?

[2ndDivisionVet]

[sono]

I believe in a single payor - the patient.

[biff]

I am glad this topic has been brought up in the forum.

My question for all you very politically smart FReepers is:

Is there anyway possible, logically that the ACA could be morphed legally into a single payer system without new legislation? I know it was not a kosher deal from the get go by the Dems but I am trying to figure out how they could change it without a new bill completely.

It would seem to me it would take a new bill from the House, then the Senate and to the Prez for signing, at which time we could mount a defense like none before.

[Skooz]

Bump

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Rationing of expensive procedures need not be done overtly, by a “Death Panel”. There will be Death Panels; but, most rationing will be done a lot more covertly (i.e. sneakily).

Here, in Canada, in the late 1980’s, early 1990’s, all governments (federal, provincial, territorial) conspired to drastically cut enrollments in medical and nursing schools. The rationale was stated as “Doctors create their own demand”. Cut the number of Doctors, and the demand for health care would fall — or so went the official line.

Naturally, that soon lead to a severe shortage in Doctors, and long wait lists for testing or operations (A common phrase in Canada: “I’m waitlisted for that operation”). The Fraser Institute (an excellent “free market” think tank) started publishing regular reports on the backlogs for medical services — using the government’s own data. Finally, in the early 2000s, this policy was ended, and more medical school positions opened up. As a result, we now have far more Doctors — including specialists.

That’s led to the latest rationing gambit. Operating room time at hospitals is severely restricted. Most operating rooms aren’t available at night. They are periodically closed altogether for weeks at a time, whenever annual quotas are exceeded.

The latest twist in this sad saga is unemployed medical specialists — in particular surgeons. They are unemployed, because there are no operating rooms available for them to work in.

Meanwhile, wait lists are still often far longer than Americans would once have tolerated.

[citizen]

bfl

[Kickass Conservative]

Liberals think they will sitting between Moocelle Obama and Nancy Pelosi at the Lord Obama Health Care Spa waiting to see a Harvard Trained Internal Medicine Doctor.

They will actually be sitting on the floor of a filthy waiting room in a run down Government Building with Urine soaked Homeless People waiting to see a Third World Trained Nurse Practitioner, or the Receptionist.

[GailA]

You only have to look at Medicare and Tricare Life, the Military’s over 65 secondary to Medicare.

A $50k 2 DAY STAY IN THE ER BECAUSE OF NO BEDS, BECAME $2,500 that both totally paid the hospital. Then sent us medicine co-pay bills, what medicine do you ask, 1 adult asprin, 6 nitro pastes patches which did not work. What they paid the cardiologist I have no idea, but it was not nearly half what is his normal fee. Oh, test were CT scan and treadmill walk stress test.