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To: nathanbedford
Without drawing this missive out into a long-winded, (which is what's going to happen anyway) esoteric debate I can say that we are in agreement. I am not finger pointing. I wish to reach a rapprochement with you.

I am not, in any way, insinuating anything residing in a German DNA. I reject the DNA idea completely. Tortured soul, yes, preprogramemd killing tendency, no.

You stated:

“Does the fact that the Israelis have won a series of wars against great odds mean that they are a warlike race”?

The fact that Israel has won a series of wars is a testament to the fact that most of these wars were defensible, thus making them loyal to the name of the Army, the Israel DEFENSE Forces.

If Israel was really a warlike country, it would have soundly defeated the Arabs and utterly wiped them out so as to not to have to deal with them again, in another, and yet another war as we have seen up until the present time. Israel could have eliminated the Arabs in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 but she stopped short of that because she seeks a negotiated peace. The Arabs on the contrary fight genocidal wars as we are seeing right now. Had they won, we would not be here at all. Just look at what they do to each other, in their own lands!

Jews and Communism. Jews have a tendency to stand out and not accept the status quo and are always found at the forefront or avantguard of X.

Jews love change because they're never satisfied with what is. More recently, that's why they voted for Obama’s CHANGE. This Jew did not support the current President.

This desire for change propels them to the forefront of both moderate and radical change throughout history, in all fields (Einstein, Freud and Marx) including politics. Alinsky, Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman, Rosa Luxembourg, Trotsky and so many more were Jews with a change agenda that revolutionized the world.

Jews may initiate that change but never sure how it will end, usually to their detriment. This is a lesson not learned by the Jews. The aims of Zionism on the other hand are designed by, for and the advabcement of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael, the Land of Israel.

I thought the Frankfurt school was an anti-Socialist, anti-collective Economic think tank. Am I incorrect? Many Jews there? Like Hayek and Mises? Are/were these fellows Jews?

Obama’s mentors are (unfortunately) individuals like Jimmy Carter, Zbig Brzezinski, Rev. Wright, Alinksy and a host of Left-wing nut cases, but the people did elect him.

What can I say about the likes of Jews like Ram Emmanuel or in Clinton's administration, Sandy Berger, Mad. Albright, Martin Indyk, Dennis Ross, etc.? I can only hang my head in shame at these Jews who serve another G-d apparently.

You stated:
“Likewise, I want to know what America gets out of its relationship with Israel not whether Israel is our "burden" because of German crimes of a prior generation”.

Do you see Israel as a “burden”? I'd like to know why. Israel gives many things to America but most of it is secret.
America does not support Israel ONLY out of a moral conviction to perhaps, safeguard a people who are part and parcel of the founding of America and the deep Judeo-Christian values that existed in America and perhaps, still guide her but I am not so sure anymore.

I think self-interest is primary followed by COMMON VALUES in a sea of barbarity in the Middle East. There is no denying that the moral element for Germany's relationship with Israel is part of a post-war “responsibility” that the Germans feel. This will fade with time and then where will Germany be?

It has been said that the Jews are the Miner's canary bird in the cave for civilization. When Jews go down, other always follow, this seems to be a rule throughout history and maybe this is why, it is still important for the West to “safeguard” the Jews from Holocaust II, though, if you ask me, we in Israel can't RELY on anybody to defend us.

Obama and the West are showing that they are not prepared to do anything whatsoever to halt the Iranians, who will get the bomb and this will change the planet. Now onto your last issue.

You come back to what I think is your main point, time and time again. That the sins of the fathers should not be passed down to the children. There is great merit in what you say but in reality it is the German people's decision. It is up to your culture and society in Deutschland to deal with it and, get over it or, pass it down.

The Jews will not forget and these memories are passed down just as the memories from ancient Persia (holiday of Purim) and ancient Egypt (holiday of Passover) are remembered and burned into our religious, national-social psyches.

When Israeli youth, from high schools, visit Auschwitz and do what is called, “The March of the Living” wearing Israeli blue and white with flags in hand, does this not irriatte the Poles? Does this not remind them about something they'd prefer to forget about? Of course. We remember and mark the place, the Poles can chose to hate us for reminding them or they can deal with it in their own terms.

So Germany has to deal with their own past, in the own terms. It is not up to me as a post-WWII Jew to tell you what to do with that package of horror. Either learn from it or make similar mistakes again, in the future.

I do not want to dictate anything to you but history shows the Jewish people that they pay a price for reminding others that they (the Jews) thrive and live and are a testament to G-d. This can really piss off other faiths and it does.

I even once read a diatribe by Bin Laden where he attacked the Jews by saying that the Torah is the sole possession of the Muslims, not the “pigs and monkey” Jews.

I call that unbridled jealousy and hate and that is what Islam suffers from today.

46 posted on 08/21/2013 11:22:17 PM PDT by Netz
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To: Netz
I thought the Frankfurt school was an anti-Socialist, anti-collective Economic think tank. Am I incorrect? Many Jews there? Like Hayek and Mises? Are/were these fellows Jews?

I do not think that The Frankfurt School could be described as anti-socialist and anti-collective, to the contrary the indictment against the Frankfurt school is that it has brilliantly expanded conventional Marxism from a purely economic approach to a social approach as well and this adaptation has profoundly influenced American and indeed worldwide education and explains much of our condition today.

In my view it is unfortunate that the history of The Frankfurt School reveals that it was 100% (or nearly 100%) Jewish in its origins and development. That immunizes it to some degree from criticism as does Obama's skin pigment. I offer you two views of this extraordinarily influential intellectual movement, one which indicts the movement with a bill of particulars and the counteroffensive, which comes from The Southern Poverty Law Center and touches on potential anti-Semitism of the critics and alleges the critics engage in conspiracy theory.

If you look at the indictment,

Who Placed American Men in a Psychic 'Iron Cage?' Part II

The Threat of 'Cultural Marxism' you will be exposed to a coherent challenge to the movement. I direct you to the Wikipedia account of the opposition so that you can see how the game is played by the opposition: Frankfurt School conspiracy theory.

I regret that this comes up in the context of anti-Semitism because it distorts any discussion of the impact of The Frankfurt School. Please remember that I referred of The Frankfurt School not by way of saying it is a Jewish conspiracy but by way of saying that its existence, whether a conspiracy or not, is not grounds for indictment of the Jewish race-precisely the opposite of what The Southern Poverty Law Center will no doubt accuse me of.


47 posted on 08/22/2013 1:18:34 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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