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To: rustbucket; rockrr
Before the Northern fleet arrived at Charleston on April 11-12, 1861, Lincoln had met with various Republican governors to urge them get their forces on a war footing. Massachusetts was thus able to send troops to protect Washington one day after Lincoln called for them.

So far as I can tell it was two days. The troops didn't get there until another five days or so had passed. That was already 10 days or so after the attack on Sumter, so there really wasn't much surprising or startling about the timing.

Indeed, Governor John Andrew was readying the Massachusetts militia back in January, before Lincoln even took office. He also urged the other New England governors to mobilize well before Lincoln became president. The troops were ready to go and no secret meeting was necessary.

General Winfield Scott called out the Washington militia a day or so before the attack on Sumter.

I'm not sure what that would have entailed. How big would Washington militia be? And why is that any sort of a problem? The South Carolina militia was active and apparently mobilized months before, back in 1860. With such a momentous crisis wouldn't it have been surprising if measures weren't taken to secure the capital?

Lincoln knew sending the fleet to Sumter would provoke a shooting war. IMO, that basically was his intention.

Just your opinion. Others disagree. And of course, any war would require Davis's cooperation.

That is why he planned his expedition to Sumter in secret and did not reconvene Congress until July. He did not want Congress to interfere with his plans.

No commander-in-chief wants legislators meddling in real-time military or diplomatic maneuvers, if he can help it.

It's probably time to get beyond your assumptions, though. In crisis situations there are various gambits and maneuvers available to presidents and generals. The notion that a mild resupply mission demanded a violent response just doesn't work any more, given all that we've learned about stand-off situations over the years.

But this is a bit confusing. It was the most momentous moment in the country's history and Congress wasn't in session? They adjourned for some reason or other of their own and you'd expect Lincoln to summon them back into session to interfere in a delicate situation?

52 posted on 08/21/2013 4:00:57 PM PDT by x
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To: x; southernsunshine
Indeed, Governor John Andrew was readying the Massachusetts militia back in January, before Lincoln even took office.

That much is true. I've posted about it before. From the Richmond Daily Dispatch (VA) of February 11, 1861: The Massachusetts Military.

Boston, February 7.

--Military orders promulgated to-day by the Commander-in-Chief are prefaced as follows:

"The present condition of national affairs renders it possible that the services of the volunteer military of Massachusetts may be required at no distant day, and at short notice, by the President of the United States for the defence of the Federal capital, and it is the desire of his Excellency, the Governor, and Commander-in-Chief, that the troops be in readiness for any legal requisition that may be made upon them."

The orders apply more directly to the First Division, and require rigid scrutiny of company rolls, frequent company drills, and a thorough preparation for active service.

He also urged the other New England governors to mobilize well before Lincoln became president. The troops were ready to go and no secret meeting was necessary.

Necessary or not, Lincoln did hold secret meetings with Republican governors to get troops ready.

Many of the Republican Governors are here to stiffen the backbone of Mr. Lincoln, and to brace him up to the bloody work before him. No fewer than nine of these men were in secret conclave last night. Their proceedings were kept as secret as those of the Star Chamber or Council of Ten. [Source: the Brooklyn Eagle, April 6, 1861, Link]

And

The New York Herald, of the 6th inst., gives accounts of what is going on in this way, in anticipation of a coercive policy on the part of the Washington administration. It says that on the 5th inst., Gov. Curtin, of Pennsylvania, besides being closeted with Lincoln for an hour, had an interview with Secretary Cameron and Gen. Scott, and at 11 o'clock that same night had a private interview with one of Gen. Scott's confidential officers. There is no doubt, it adds, that Pennsylvania will be put upon a war footing immediately.

Massachusetts is said to have six thousand six hundred and seventy men, all equipped and ready to march at twelve hours notice. Among them, says the Herald, are two flying artillery batteries, almost as expert in drill as the best regulars, and several dragoon and cavalry corps, not surpassed in efficiency by any in the volunteer militia in the United States. The infantry troops are well drilled.

New York State, according to the same authority, is pledged to furnish ten thousand men at forty-eight hours notice, and other States in proportion. [Source: The April 11, 1861 Daily Picayune of New Orleans reporting on an earlier report in the New York Herald]

And

April 6, 1861. Governors of Indiana, Ohio, Maine, and Pennsylvania confer with President about military status of militia. Reported in the Baltimore Sun, 9 April 1861 [Source: The Lincoln Log]

And

... we have reliable information to the effect that a number of Black Republican Governors have been in recent secret conclave with the President of the United States, the evident intent of which was a conspiracy against the rights and liberties of the South, of which we form a part, as proven by the recommendation of a war bill by the Governor of Pennsylvania, who was one of them, and the immediate passage of the same by the Legislature of that State ... [Source: The Richmond Daily Dispatch, April 17, 1861]

[Me]: Massachusetts was thus able to send troops to protect Washington one day after Lincoln called for them.

[You]: So far as I can tell it was two days.

Here are some reports on Massachusetts troops:

The Sixth Massachusetts Regiment was the first to march in response to Lincoln's call for 75,000 troops. They left Lowell, Mass. on the morning of April 16 [one day after Lincoln's call for them], completely equipped and organized. It had a full band and regimental staff. [Source: "Baltimore and the Nineteenth of April 1861," by George William Brown]

And

Gov. Andrews to-day telegraphed to the President. The quota of troops required of Massachusetts is ready; how will you have them to proceed? [Source: New York Herald, April 16, 1861]

Pennsylvania

Three days after the distressed president’s call, some 475 Pennsylvanians, comprising the ranks of five volunteer militia companies, arrived in the nation's capital. [Link].

[Me]: General Winfield Scott called out the Washington militia a day or so before the attack on Sumter.

[You]: I'm not sure what that would have entailed. How big would Washington militia be? And why is that any sort of a problem?

There were ten companies of Washington militia, I believe. Probably prudent planning by Lincoln and Scott. They were not sure how some of the population would react to the probable battle at Fort Sumter.

No commander-in-chief wants legislators meddling in real-time military or diplomatic maneuvers, if he can help it.

I am somehow reminded of LBJ and his minions interfering with military operations during the Vietnam War.

But this is a bit confusing. It was the most momentous moment in the country's history and Congress wasn't in session? They adjourned for some reason or other of their own and you'd expect Lincoln to summon them back into session to interfere in a delicate situation?

Here I am reminded of Carl Schurz's April 5, 1861 letter to Lincoln. Basically Lincoln had earlier told Schurz if Lincoln called an extra session of Congress, some in Congress might have called for peace and compromise. Couldn't have that. Here is an excerpt from the letter.

Some time ago you told me, that you did not want to call an extra-session of Congress for fear of reopening the compromise-agitation. You were undoubtedly right then. But any vigorous act on the part of your Administration, any display of power and courage will remove that danger. If you first reinforce the forts and then call Congress together, the enthusiasm of the masses will be so great and overwhelming, that Congress will be obliged to give you any legislation you may ask for. You will be master of the situation, and supported by the confidence of the people, the government will be stronger than it ever was before. [Source: April 5, 1861, letter from Carl Schurz to Lincoln, bold mine, letter found by poster southernsunshine, Link to the letter]

61 posted on 08/21/2013 7:04:11 PM PDT by rustbucket (Mens et Manus)
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To: x

The slave power had attempted to prevent Lincoln’s inauguration by starting and taking over several militia companies. Loyal US army officers wrote up a loyalty oath, and went around to the various militia companies, asking the officers to swear loyalty, in front of their men. Where they didn’t, the company was disbanded, and the federal weapons retrieved, for issue to a loyal militia company.

It was only because of the loyal militia companies and the find work by US Army officers that Lincoln was inaugurated.


64 posted on 08/21/2013 10:04:52 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: x; rustbucket
It was the most momentous moment in the country's history and Congress wasn't in session? They adjourned for some reason or other of their own and you'd expect Lincoln to summon them back into session to interfere in a delicate situation?

"Interfere"? When the Constitution gives Congress alone the power to declare war?

81 posted on 08/22/2013 1:43:41 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: x
Indeed, Governor John Andrew was readying the Massachusetts militia back in January, before Lincoln even took office. He also urged the other New England governors to mobilize well before Lincoln became president. The troops were ready to go and no secret meeting was necessary.

If they were all about peace, why the war preparations, unless they were about war, a grand crusade to destroy the South and take the country's affairs into very profitable receivership?

No secret meeting may have been necessary, but the meetings continued, in hushed and rushed circumstances, right up to the fall of Fort Sumter.

So much yearning for peace, and yet so many secret meetings, so many quartermasters and militia commanders so hard at work, so many unspoken plans and conjurations.

Yes, that has peace written all over it. Well before Lincoln took the oath, too.

84 posted on 08/22/2013 1:55:49 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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