Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: rustbucket
Exactly what negotiations did Lincoln have with the Confederates over Fort Pickens or Fort Sumter?

I was referring to any negotiations that might occur further down the road. You really don't think that Lincoln was simply going to give the secessionists whatever they wanted when they wanted it, starting with recognition. No, there would be a period of uncertainty, of stalemate, and eventually it would be resolved somehow. That Confederates were so impatient with that was the problem.

Nice to know what kind of poster I'm dealing with.

Nice to know what kind of person you are. This isn't the only thing in my life. I don't have time to look up everything you happen to mention. There are other people who apparently still enjoy doing that sort of thing, who can respond better than I can. Maybe a side effect of the Internet is that people like you can find somebody somewhere to argue with without pushing any particular person too far with your own mania.

In fact, professional historians have dealt with all this already. Maybe you should address yourself to them, rather than waste people's time with massive data dumps of the same tired stuff over and over again, when people may actually have things going on in their own lives that are more important than humoring you.

161 posted on 08/28/2013 1:28:36 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies ]


To: x
You really don't think that Lincoln was simply going to give the secessionists whatever they wanted when they wanted it, starting with recognition. No, there would be a period of uncertainty, of stalemate, and eventually it would be resolved somehow.

From his actions, I don't believe Lincoln wanted to resolve anything except on his terms. Compromise did not appear to be one of his characteristics, nor would the South compromise on their understanding of the Constitution. Both sides didn't appear willing to budge from their basic positions, meaning the war was almost inevitable unless they tried to negotiate or stayed with the status quo. Lincoln would not negotiate or even talk with the Confederate commissioners informally and/or secretly, which I think he could have done without officially recognizing them. It takes two to negotiate. Wasn't peace worth talking with the other side who sent their people up to talk with you? Peace apparently wasn't in Lincoln's interest.

The South, for its part, is not without blame. They should have not pushed so hard to get the forts evacuated now, and they should have made every effort to make sure that Sumter was well supplied with food. And, yes, I know that Governor Pickens had early on offered to supply Fort Sumter with food, and Anderson turned him down and even sent back items he didn't order. Whose fault is it that Anderson ran out of food?

Lincoln saw an opportunity to initiate the war with it appearing to be Davis's fault. So Nicolay and Hay indicated in their history of Lincoln, their boss that they saw almost every day. Lincoln took that opportunity instead of negotiating or waiting patiently after sending messages to Governor Pickens that Sumter would be evacuated. He chose to do what his advisors had told him would lead to war, not peace. I have posted that it would have been a better decision for the South not to attack Sumter but to let Lincoln try to stop foreign ships heading to Charleston to collect import duties, a possible act of war or piracy, or as Wigfall termed it, collecting tribute.

Oh, wait ... I forgot that you don't have the time or inclination to look up things like what Nicolay and Hay said and prefer instead to say that professional historians have already dealt with things I post. That's a dodge. You apparently prefer to leave research to us little people or historians. You, my "elite" respondent, can't be bothered. Then why are you wasting our time and yours on a history thread and disparaging sourced information posted to the thread?

I am a retired Ph.D., and I am by nature and training a researcher. Surely you are not casting aspersions on me because I am old and enjoying myself just because you don’t have time to fully participate in a history thread. Over the last ten years or so I have gathered a large collection of old newspaper articles and history books on the war and its issues. I post things to these threads from them and from information I find on the web like Holt's and Scott's March 5, 1861 letter to Lincoln. That was something I had never seen before the other night, and it only took a few minutes to find what Scott was telling Lincoln about the truce right after the inauguration.

I'll keep posting stuff when it pleases me, even though you might not be willing or able to respond. Cheers!

162 posted on 08/29/2013 11:42:57 AM PDT by rustbucket (Mens et Manus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson