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To: SeekAndFind
Truth works, fallacy doesn't. Truth stands the test of inquiry, practice and history, fallacy doesn't.

I am all for wise and legitimate means of securing our borders and protecting against threats to our country. Wise and legitimate means you're wisely and constitutionally balancing protection against true threats from others with the very real threat from your own government (which history shows is a greater threat than any other).

We've all seen the questionable government actions in the name of security in creating yet another useless, expensive (OUR money) bureaucracy (Homeland Security) and the abuses and threats toward the American people in the name of security. "Security" is a common excuse totalitarian governments use to gain power. What has apparently not dawned on many is the unrestrained hue and cry against immigration and illegal immigration is yet another opportunity for an even MORE threatening government to take on even MORE power which by definition is LESS freedom for you and I.

The two main arguments I've heard here against immigration (not necessarily illegal immigration) are a socialist argument (essentially, in acquiescence to a socialist state, "We have to pay for them") and that they are Obama voters (a partisan argument against a traditional American value (we're all immigrants) basically unfettered until the 1920's; also a denial that these people may be persuaded, as they were with Reagan, by the stronger argument for freedom against the weaker argument for government dependency).

When a society, even with the best intentions, seeks to curb the non-interfering liberty of others (as I believe immigration to America is), it generally weakens that society. Here, the efforts to curb immigration, even illegal immigration, have opened the door for this Marxist (IMO) administration and sympathetic Congress to threaten the American people with even more power. E-verify is just the latest in a long line of government abuses just waiting to be unleashed upon the American people in the name of security against illegal immigration.

Our rogue government has been slow to reasonably secure our southern borders. This is a legitimate way to curb illegal immigration. Unsecured borders has allowed many illegals in (who BTW actually help us because they do jobs no one else will do in the CA fields below minimum wage so you and I get lower food prices). Reasonable and wise patriots who love our country must ask which is worse: the presence of illegal immigrants or more government intrusion into our lives. I know where I stand on that choice.

ps. One obvious area for immediate deportation is incarcerated illegals.

42 posted on 08/03/2013 9:44:18 AM PDT by PapaNew
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To: PapaNew

I have to laugh. The government couldn’t tie multiple systems together if you spotted them the interfaces and the code.

There are so many variables involved, from an act of congress all the way down to the engineer that needs a firewall opened to the coder that needs permissions to access a programming environment.

The problem isn’t the systems. The problem is who has access to the systems and who they are ultimately working for. All of this is compartmentalized enough that only people at the highest levels who work directly for the administration can access the information that will do the most damage to their political opponents. This is why the rogue agent lie at the IRS fell apart very quickly

I know this brings up Snowden. As for Snowden, when you think about it, everything he said we already knew. Heck, that is the NSA’s job to spy on communications. Just so happens that over the course of the years due to technology the role of the NSA expanded. Anything that bounces off a satellite, uses a hardline or communicates over wireless can be monitored.

I call Snowden a dogwhistle by the administration to take pressure off the other scandals.


47 posted on 08/03/2013 10:16:14 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
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