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Hi Alamo Girl I haven’t forgotten I just am so busy with my business right now that I only have snatches of time here and there to post.

I did word that sentence poorly so it could have sounded like a command. I should have said that you can talk about what the attributes of God are without first proving he exists but if you do that you are begging the question which is a logical fallacy.

I see a problem with your correlation of the chronology of the big bang theory with scripture. You write that 300,000 years after the big bang that the universe was a hot watery soup. This is not what the big bang theory proposes. According to the theory and the physics the universe was composed of plasma. It was much like the atmosphere of the sun. It was composed of Hydrogen nuclei and some of those had fused because of the heat to form Deuterium and a little helium and a tiny amount of Lithium and there were electrons wizzing around free of the nuclei . These are the first 3 elements on the periodic table. So in no way was there anything that could be construed as a watery soup. There was no water because there was no Oxygen around to bond with Hydrogen to make it. That element and all the other heavier elements were formed in the first stars which didn’t start to form until about 100,000,000 years after the big bang. So far from proving the accuracy of scripture if you accept the big bang theory then you have just proved that whoever wrote genesis really didn’t know anything and just made it up. Also the Earth did not form until around 5 billion years ago so there was no earth at the beginning. I think that in misstating the theory to fit the scriptures you have eviscerated your own argument and proved the opposite of what you set out to prove.

Now I want to discuss this concept of spiritual eyes and ears. This is another fallacious argument called the sixth sense argument. It is very common and is easy to refute. If you really have a sixth sense that allows you to see something I can’t then you would have to prove it. If a blind man said to me you are a madman talking about these visions you have which I don’t see I could prove to him in terms that he could verify with his 4 senses that I had a fifth. I could tell him for instance to turn to his right and walk 3 steps and you’ll come to a chair and it has a soft cushion and a pillow and there is a book on the armrest and the arms are wide and smooth and he could verify it with his touch. We could do this over and over until he was satisfied that I really had a fifth sense that he doesn’t. You can’t do that with your sixth sense and in fact the information you get with it contradicts the information of all 5 of mine. So that is not a valid argument because I would have to take your word on faith.

I get to this point in every discussion with believers where they have failed to make a rational argument and they say well I can’t make you see it if you don’t want to and you just have to have spiritual eyes. That is just another invalid argument.

Finally I want to remind you that you told me in another post that scientists couldn’t know reality so why are you using the theory of the big bang to try to prove he veracity of scripture. That is a massive contradiction.

Thank you for your reply, dear albionin!

I'm tired tonight (long day of elder-care) - so I'm only going to make a few observations - perhaps more tomorrow.

The "soup" reference was drawing from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory article concerning the MAXIMA, BOOMERANG, and DASI collaborations and reporting the sound waves in the CMB. It described the conditions as follows:

The peaks indicate harmonics in the sound waves that filled the early, dense universe. Until some 300,000 years after the Big Bang, the universe was so hot that matter and radiation were entangled in a kind of soup in which sound waves (pressure waves) could vibrate. The CMB is a relic of the moment when the universe had cooled enough so that photons could "decouple" from electrons, protons, and neutrons; then atoms formed and light went on its way.

At the moment of decoupling, the pressure waves left telltale traces of their existence in the form of slight temperature variations in the CMB, which in the intervening 10 billion years or so has cooled to a mere three degrees Kelvin. In 1992 George Smoot, a member of the Physics Division and a professor of physics at UC Berkeley, led the team that first detected fluctuations in the CMB with an experiment aboard the Cosmic Background Explorer satellite, COBE.

So, certainly, soup-ish but of course no atoms, etc.

Concerning spiritual perception, a person either has it or he doesn't. It is like vision, a person either sees or does not see. Cognition, however, is a different matter.

By the way, the root of the word "Logic" is Logos - the same root for the word "Word" in the following passage, a Name of God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

God's Name is I AM.