Posted on 07/15/2013 12:38:15 PM PDT by BO Stinkss
Nine months after the shooting of Trayvon Martin, a White man has killed another Florida teen under troubling circumstances.
The Orlando Sentinel reports that on Friday night, 17-year-old Jordan Russell Davis and a group of friends were sitting in an SUV in the parking lot of a Jacksonville convenience store when they were approached by another vehicle. Michael David Dunn, who was accompanied by his girlfriend, asked the teens to turn down their music.
According to Lt. Rob Schoonover of the Jacksonville Sherrif's Office, Davis and Dunn exchanged words. Allegedly, the 45-year-old then drew a gun and fired into the SUV eight or nine times, striking the young boy twice. He then drove off, but a witness inside the store wrote down his license plate number.
The following morning, the couple learned that one of the passengers of the car had died via a news report. They then returned home to Brevard County, where Dunn was arrested later that day and charged with murder and attempted murder.
Jordan Russell Davis was a student at Samuel W. Wolfson High School, a magnet school. He worked at the local Wynn Dixie grocery store. Frankly, I would not care if he was a member of Three Six Mafia who had stopped at the convenience store to re-up on blunts and 40 ounces. If a group of people is sitting in a car listening to loud music, it is not the job of a private citizen to demand that they turn it down. Furthermore, there is nothing justifiable or excusable about Dunn drawing a gun on a group of people whom he had accosted.
Michael David Dunn, likely high off the excitement of his son’s wedding, perhaps a few too many gin and tonics at the reception and certainly the feeling one gets from being White, male and armed, felt it was his place to approach these young people aggressively over the volume of their music.
And this gun wielding person, who allegedly APPROACHED THE CAR without provocation (much like George Zimmerman hunted down Trayvon Martin without provocation), felt threatened by the presence of teenagers in a car with whom he started an argument because HE THOUGHT THEIR MUSIC WAS TOO LOUD.
White privilege is just so, so real.
Dunn’s daughter has come forward to defend her father as “a good person.” While we all make mistakes, I’m inclined to say that picking an argument with a car full of teenagers and then shooting into the vehicle is the first step a “good person” makes off of the path of righteousness. I’m inclined to assume that the gun collector wasn’t a big fan of young Black men and had probably done other non-“good person” things before.
The shooter’s lawyer, Robin Lemonidis, originally stated that her client was not guilty and had acted responsibly, adding that the full story had not yet been made public. A report late Tuesday night included claims that Dunn had “seen a gun.” While he certainly is entitled to his day in court…why was the gun claim not made until two days after he was arrested? Why didn’t he turn himself in if he felt he’d done nothing wrong? Where was the “good person” his daughter swears he is then?
Dunn harassed a car full of young people, shot into the car and drove away. Upon learning that someone had died, he fled town and waited for the police to come find him. The only bit of hope here is that there was a car full of witnesses, in addition to the people in and around the store who saw the incident.
Alas, in a country that is dealing with increased racial tensions and the insane paranoia of White men who seem to feel that their country has been stolen by a burgeoning ‘minority’ population and a Black president who won the popular vote, it seems inevitable that we will hear more stories like this. And as a community that has been ravaged by not only external abuse, but our own inability to get any sort of handle on our issues with Black-on-Black violence, one cant help but to feel like we are stuck in a sense of perpetual outrage, grief and trauma.
And so Jordan joins Trayvon as one of many, many Black boys and girls to be felled by senseless violence. Death by White hands, death by Black ones…one thing seems to remain constant: our lives simply do not matter enough to be protected. We march, we pray, we cry and still, we die for no reason.
When does it end?
Um, are you an attorney? In Florida?
I'd bet you my house a "verbal threat" of grievous bodily injury or death could justify use of lethal force, in nearly ANY jurisdiction.
Might want to walk back that internet law degree, sport.
It would have to accompany an actual perception on the part of the user of force that the speaker had the means and intent to carry out the threat in the language.
If I said to you, "I'm going to put your head in a blender and turn it on the highest setting", unless I am carrying a presently operable blender and appear sincere in my threat, you probably shouldn't use deadly force. An extreme example, I know, but it illustrates the point.
That said, if a teenage punk says, "I got a gun, and I'm gonna shoot your ass," you are not required to wait around and see if he actually pulls out a gun and shoots you before you can use deadly force.
Such is the problem with teenage bravado.
Yes, I am an attorney. Not in Florida, but an attorney nonetheless. Not an internet law degree, either.
I did not intend to imply that a verbal threat can *never* be sufficient to cause a “reasonable fear” of grievous bodily injury or death, such that the use of deadly force is justified. Self-defense cases simply don’t lend themselves to bright-line rules like that - the threat/action/etc. must be considered in light of the circumstances, and there could be circumstances where a verbal threat is enough. Here, in these circumstances, where the guy was physically separated from the allegedly threatening person, where he wasn’t even sure what the guy said or whether he was just singing along to music, and where he thought he saw something that may have been a weapon, I just don’t see the “reasonable fear.”
Again, depends on the circumstances. You're forgetting one element of a self-defense claim - you must not only show that you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, but rather that you have a reasonable fear of IMMINENT death or great bodily harm. There could be circumstances where "I got a gun, and I'm gonna shoot your ass" would be enough to show that, but there are many other situations where it is not.
You may not have meant to imply it, but you certainly stated it.
I'm not an attorney, but I know language and how to use it.
For just one example, by the way (and a seasonal one, at that) - suppose you are at the beach, and some thug wearing nothing but swim trunks says “I got a gun, and I’m gonna shoot your ass.” You’d have a hard time arguing that you had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury.
I said it in the context of discussing this case.
Good luck to you.
Absolutely. I acknowledged the “reasonableness” standard of any perceived threat elsewhere on this thread.
Sorry for the disjointed replies; the deceased's own friends admitted he said something "disrespectful." Add in the bias points and that could easily go to "threat of physical violence."
No black person has ever asked another person to turn down their music. Only whites feeling privileged do that!
In both cases someone responded to insults with deadly force. One person payed with his life, the other insulter is fighting for his.
According to witnesses, and there were a number of them, the vehicle moved a short distance out of the parking lot, then reversed back into it when they realized their friend was hit. It was under observation by witnesses the entire time until police came. A search of the area found no weapon.
Well, there you have it.
Just keep trying to spin a version of events that excuses a guy for shooting into a car full of people for playing their music too loud, then driving away.
Just wondering if this was a no snitch neighborhood.
Doesn’t look like it. One of the local news sites has an overhead photo of the scene, which looks pretty suburban, and recordings of all the 911 calls from the people on the scene, which apart from the guy whose friend was killed begging for an ambulance, all sound white.
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