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Let's Not Forget There's Another Trayvon
http://www.farrakhanfactor.com/ ^ | Sun Jul 14, 2013 | RealBrother

Posted on 07/15/2013 12:38:15 PM PDT by BO Stinkss

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To: Conscience of a Conservative
And, in any event, verbal threats and "bad language" do not give you the right to use deadly force.

Um, are you an attorney? In Florida?

I'd bet you my house a "verbal threat" of grievous bodily injury or death could justify use of lethal force, in nearly ANY jurisdiction.

Might want to walk back that internet law degree, sport.

101 posted on 07/15/2013 3:04:06 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
I'd bet you my house a "verbal threat" of grievous bodily injury or death could justify use of lethal force, in nearly ANY jurisdiction.

It would have to accompany an actual perception on the part of the user of force that the speaker had the means and intent to carry out the threat in the language.

If I said to you, "I'm going to put your head in a blender and turn it on the highest setting", unless I am carrying a presently operable blender and appear sincere in my threat, you probably shouldn't use deadly force. An extreme example, I know, but it illustrates the point.

102 posted on 07/15/2013 3:06:17 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: 101stAirborneVet
Yes, the legal requirement, generally, is that the threat would reasonably be considered credible, with reasonableness being determined by a jury.

That said, if a teenage punk says, "I got a gun, and I'm gonna shoot your ass," you are not required to wait around and see if he actually pulls out a gun and shoots you before you can use deadly force.

Such is the problem with teenage bravado.

103 posted on 07/15/2013 3:16:25 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Yes, I am an attorney. Not in Florida, but an attorney nonetheless. Not an internet law degree, either.

I did not intend to imply that a verbal threat can *never* be sufficient to cause a “reasonable fear” of grievous bodily injury or death, such that the use of deadly force is justified. Self-defense cases simply don’t lend themselves to bright-line rules like that - the threat/action/etc. must be considered in light of the circumstances, and there could be circumstances where a verbal threat is enough. Here, in these circumstances, where the guy was physically separated from the allegedly threatening person, where he wasn’t even sure what the guy said or whether he was just singing along to music, and where he thought he saw something that may have been a weapon, I just don’t see the “reasonable fear.”


104 posted on 07/15/2013 3:52:49 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Trailerpark Badass
That said, if a teenage punk says, "I got a gun, and I'm gonna shoot your ass," you are not required to wait around and see if he actually pulls out a gun and shoots you before you can use deadly force.

Again, depends on the circumstances. You're forgetting one element of a self-defense claim - you must not only show that you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, but rather that you have a reasonable fear of IMMINENT death or great bodily harm. There could be circumstances where "I got a gun, and I'm gonna shoot your ass" would be enough to show that, but there are many other situations where it is not.

105 posted on 07/15/2013 4:04:46 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
I did not intend to imply that a verbal threat can *never* be sufficient to cause a “reasonable fear” of grievous bodily injury or death,

You may not have meant to imply it, but you certainly stated it.

I'm not an attorney, but I know language and how to use it.

106 posted on 07/15/2013 4:05:57 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

For just one example, by the way (and a seasonal one, at that) - suppose you are at the beach, and some thug wearing nothing but swim trunks says “I got a gun, and I’m gonna shoot your ass.” You’d have a hard time arguing that you had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury.


107 posted on 07/15/2013 4:07:14 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I said it in the context of discussing this case.


108 posted on 07/15/2013 4:07:58 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
SUV full of black youths? And you wouldn't take any alleged threats of violence seriously?!

Good luck to you.

109 posted on 07/15/2013 4:12:24 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Absolutely. I acknowledged the “reasonableness” standard of any perceived threat elsewhere on this thread.


110 posted on 07/15/2013 4:16:48 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
where he wasn’t even sure what the guy said or whether he was just singing along to music,

Sorry for the disjointed replies; the deceased's own friends admitted he said something "disrespectful." Add in the bias points and that could easily go to "threat of physical violence."

111 posted on 07/15/2013 4:21:33 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Shimmer1

No black person has ever asked another person to turn down their music. Only whites feeling privileged do that!


112 posted on 07/15/2013 4:48:43 PM PDT by Treeless Branch
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To: TexasCajun

In both cases someone responded to insults with deadly force. One person payed with his life, the other insulter is fighting for his.


113 posted on 07/15/2013 5:34:45 PM PDT by BO Stinkss ( I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
The car with the teens did drive some distance away from the scene, ostensibly to get away from the gun-wielding cracker, but any weapon could possibly have been discarded then.

According to witnesses, and there were a number of them, the vehicle moved a short distance out of the parking lot, then reversed back into it when they realized their friend was hit. It was under observation by witnesses the entire time until police came. A search of the area found no weapon.

114 posted on 07/15/2013 7:27:12 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Witnesses.

Well, there you have it.

115 posted on 07/15/2013 9:07:06 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Just keep trying to spin a version of events that excuses a guy for shooting into a car full of people for playing their music too loud, then driving away.


116 posted on 07/15/2013 9:19:43 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Not at all.

Just wondering if this was a no snitch neighborhood.

117 posted on 07/15/2013 9:57:09 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Doesn’t look like it. One of the local news sites has an overhead photo of the scene, which looks pretty suburban, and recordings of all the 911 calls from the people on the scene, which apart from the guy whose friend was killed begging for an ambulance, all sound white.


118 posted on 07/15/2013 10:09:57 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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