(DOD Civilian) Furloughs kick in amid anger, resignation

Stars and Stripes ^ | 7/12/2013

[blueunicorn6]

Claim to be a pig farmer and that you were discriminated against by the federal government. That’s worth $50,000. Claim to be a homosexual and receive an ambassador posting. Look at how Obama has been fighting for the DOD employees......hahahahahahahahahahahaha! No....seriously......he really cares about them.......hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Colonel_Flagg]

"Congress wouldn’t win any popularity contests among the furloughed."

Then neither should the "Commander-in-Chief", whose idea the sequester was. Not like that would ever be reported, or anything.

[markomalley]

yes leatherneck, I love the military but we out here who are the ones supporting all this stuff can’t afford it for military officers to then start collecting their retirement, go to work for the federal government as a GS 11 or 12, retire from there, collect retirement, collect social security, collect cost of living increases on all three, chit man, why don’t you take some of that lucre you have gained from the taxpayers’ blood sweat and tears and start a manufacturing plant or factory?

Would it make a difference if the retiree was working in industry? If so, why??

A person's wages are his wages. An agreement is an agreement.

Would it be ethical for a private-sector employer to see that a person is a retired E-6 drawing $1,000 a month pension and tell that retiree that his salary will be $1,000 a month less because he is a retiree and makes that as a pension...so why should the company pay him?

Would it be ethical for a company to tell an 62 year old employee who has paid into a 401(k) for 25 years that they are taking back the "company match" funds because, well, the company was mis-managed and they need the money -- so screw you?

I can't speak for officers, but as a retired Senior NCO, I made decisions in my life a long time ago based upon the fact that if I was patient and stayed in, I would have a nice reward at the end. I put up with a ton of crap, dealt with my share of total idiots, and did so while drawing wages that were about half to 2/3 of what I would earn as a private sector person...and, why? Because I had an agreement with my country...do my bit now and reap the rewards later on.

IF they get rid of all the support for people who have never done a day's worth of constructive work in their lives…IF they get rid of ALL the waste and actually manage money and people effectively…IF they get rid of ALL the departments and programs that are in violation of Article 1 Section 8...THEN AND ONLY THEN will I be more than willing to sacrifice what I earned for the good of the country.

Until then...you owe me.

And if that makes me …part of the machine that is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs?, tough shit.

[USNBandit]

The critical number is 22 days, but I don’t know if that is within a 12 month period, calendar year, or fiscal year. More than 22 and a RIF is mandatory.

[yldstrk]

it’s all about you, huh leatherneck? I have paid you plenty and if you continue to kill the goose laying the golden eggs I oppose you

what a stupid speel. Because you put up with idiots for 20 years we owe you? the whole world puts up with idiots every minute of every day and it doesn’t mean anybody owes you squat

childish lunacy

[yldstrk]

I am not a sir, and if you have government retirement, one government for being military, I do not mind that. As I said, if you knew how livid it makes the rest of us to have people double and triple dipping you would get it.

[raybbr]

I don't care anymore. Fire them all. In this case a LOT of bad apples spoiled the whole bunch.

Talked to the coach of my 8 year old son - he's FBI and his wife is an armed IRS agent. WTF do IRS agents need to be armed for? He was whining about her being furloughed one day a week. Get over it.

Saw 15 Amtrak workers watching ONE guy cut a railroad tie one day. Fire them all!

I am sick to death of these petty, spoiled, whining brats complain about a day off without pay. Every day I go to bed wondering if my company, due to the taxes that these people confiscate, the regulations they impose and enforce, the bloat they suck out of the economy and the general overall incompetence they engender in their "jobs".

They can all go to hell. State employees, Federal employees are nothing but a bunch of damn leeches. I don't care if they perform a "needed service". Even the newest private company could do it better cheaper.

God, I am so tired of waiting for the next shoe, on this millipede of federal government, to drop down on my life and the lives of my sons. I have ZERO sympathy for these teat sucking pods.

If anyone bothers to try to argue against my rant - forget it.

[yldstrk]

and yes, it would make a difference if the individual was working in industry because industry has to support itself and does not suck off the taxpayeers

[yldstrk]

I am in complete and total agreement with you

[ClaytonP]

Until then...you owe me.

And if that makes me …part of the machine that is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs?, tough shit.

Fine, have that attitude.

We could reach a point where it could come down to a choice between starvation or shooting.

[markomalley]

Fine, have that attitude.

I said I'm willing for my employer to renege on his agreement with me.

Provided EVERYTHING else has been done first.

Have they done everything else first?

No?

Then get back with me once they have.

[markomalley]

what a stupid speel. Because you put up with idiots for 20 years we owe you? the whole world puts up with idiots every minute of every day and it doesn’t mean anybody owes you squat

Got it.

So then you'll be perfectly cool when Obama Obama confiscates your 401k...got it.

Left wing piece of trash. You have no problems with paying bums and illegal aliens as long as you can violate contracts at will.

Typical Obamabot.

[raybbr]

I am in complete and total agreement with you

And, I, with you. Even on FR the the mighty mouth parts of the government leech are hard to excise.

[yldstrk]

marko

you are calling me an obamabot because I am pixed off about government waste?

Just want to be clear here

[ClaytonP]

I said I'm willing for my employer to renege on his agreement with me.

Provided EVERYTHING else has been done first.

Have they done everything else first?

No?

Then get back with me once they have.

Nobody is going to care about your technicalities when they are trying to free themselves from oppression.

You have chosen sides.

You sound like some kind of Redcoat in 1776 who says to a colonial:

"I will go home as soon as King George releases me from service and pays me off. Until then I have the right to quarter in your home and appropriate your livestock for my sustenance."

[markomalley]

If I have to support a side that believes in violating contracts, then I have no use for that side.

Sounds like to me, I’ll just sit this one out.

[ClaytonP]

[markomalley]

you are calling me an obamabot because I am pixed off about government waste?

No.

Not hardly.

I am calling you an obamabot because you want to violate contracts, while not dealing with the problem.

You get rid of government waste by:

• Going back to Article 1 Section 8 (as amended) and eliminating everything that is not explicitly called out in that section.
• Redoing the civil service law so that managerial jobs are not classified by the number of people supervised, but by the scope and effectiveness of that program (if you want, I can explain that further) and by rewarding managers and employees based upon actual performance (sort of like they do in the civilian world when they reward managers based upon improvements in the delta between top line and bottom line).
• Rewriting and simplifying the FAR to get rid of the BS and actually require real performance out of contractors...providing them with real rewards for producing quality products and services more effectively while getting rid of the incredible amount of BS that jacks up pricing by about twice.
• etc.

There is a ton that could be done to shrink the federal government by about 75% -- and I'm not exaggerating with that percentage.

But breaking a contract with somebody else who has already fulfilled his portion of the agreement is not one of those ways. That is just dishonorable.

Only a socialist would support that kind of dishonor.

You are horrified at the prospect of Obama confiscating your 401k or IRA...and promising to give you a federally-funded pension in its place, right?

If not, you should be.

Another example is if you agree to provide 100 widgets to the government for $100,000. You deliver the widgets. The government says, "well, we changed our minds. We are only going to pay you $25,000." And your costs in building the widgets...which you've already built...were $50,000. Again, you'd be horrified, right?

There is ZERO moral difference between that and telling somebody that they served 20 years but don't need their pension.

I have had prospective employers try to offer me below market rate for my services...using the fact that I draw a military pension as part of the justification for the lowball offer. I have told them where they could shove their lowball offer. (I remember one who corrected the offer and I still told them to screw themselves, as I wouldn't work for an outfit that had such ethics)

But if I have earned an E-7 retirement and my employer happens to be the US government, there should be no difference than if my employer was Domino's Pizza...if I have a position, I should get paid what that position is worth. If I'm not working to the requirements of that position, well, then fire me for non-performance. But don't try saying "you don't need the money because you are already drawing a military retirement".

Otherwise, it sounds like you're saying, "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." And we all know who said that.

If I mischaracterized what you were trying to say, I apologize.

[OldGoatCPO]

Double dipping actually means collecting two retirement checks, which means a person spent 20 years in the military then went civilian Federal employee for ten more years minimum and retired again. Now if you mean someone like me, who is drawing a well earned retirement and is now working for the federal government at job they had already been trained for that is call earning a paycheck. Recycling retirees into all levels of civil service is a win, win for the government and your tax dollars. We do not rate unemployment compensation, we already have medical coverage and most guys like me, will never draw a retirement from civil service. Not all of us are paid DC pay scale you hear about on TV. Unless you are advocating that retired military, cops, firefighters, bankers should not be allowed to work for the government? By your definition, my friend the retired civilian firefighter should not be allowed to work as a bus driver on base because he is double dipping! We all chose a career path in life. I was belittled for joining the military in the 70s, it was seen as a career for losers. Now I listen to people who out of petty jealously think all career Feds are rich and should stop whining. Most civil service folks are just working stiffs, raising families, pay local taxes, sending their kids to school, coaching the little league team or soccer team. Some are federal cops, janitors, grounds keepers, carpenters and locksmiths. If they are GS, WG and some NF employees they are losing anywhere from $120 to $1000 per month under sequestration. They complain because they see the all the fraud, waste, abuse and vacations. Furloughs are the first step, next positions will be riffed. Like civilian jobs, our jobs can just go away, mine probably will within the next two years. I am not complaining WalMart lays needs old guys to be greeters.

[markomalley]

Shoot me in the back?

Sounds about as honorable as somebody who would violate contracts as a part of national policy.